Halyard Snagged in the Passive Radar Reflector.

[Sandy]

Sailing mostly single handed and from time to time I get the main halyard snagged up with the passive radar reflector; a complete pain in the derriere.

Having given the problem some though I'm considering running a couple of lines from the main shrouds, round the reflector:

• has anybody else done this, if so what type of line have you use;
• have you used a constrictor knot as you pass the line round the reflector; and
• are the lines tight or slack?

 

[Refueler]

Trying to figure out how you have it setup ???

Any picture so we can see relationship of the halyard to reflector ?

 

[PetiteFleur]

I tied a line port & starboard from the shroud end of the crosstrees to where the radar reflector is fixed to the mast, in my case at the reflector base. On my previous boat, Jaguar 27.

 

[Sandy]

This might help. The picture is not my boat but will give you an idea.

Line from the main shroud led to the front of the radar reflector, it does a 360 round the reflector then off to the shroud on the other side.

 

[Refueler]

Now I get you .....

seems like light lines from reflector to crosstree each side may be answer ?

 

[Martin_J]

I thought about doing the same...

But then figured out that the halyard would only ever wrap around the radar reflector if it was both very slack and then left to flap around a bit as you went over a bit of swell.

Ensuring there's never enough slack in the halyard prevents this from happening.

 

[Martin_J]

And considering I can shimmy up the mast in seconds, it wasn't as if fitting a couple of bits of string would have been a lot of effort.

I do agree though that once the wrap has happened the unwrapping can be a bit of a pain..

 

[Refueler]

I thought about doing the same...

But then figured out that the halyard would only ever wrap around the radar reflector of it was both very slack and then left to flap around a bit as you went over a bit of swell.

Ensuring there's never enough slack in the halyard prevents this from happening.

Once I saw the reflector he has ... that was my thought as well.

 

[johnalison]

Prevention is certainly better than a cure. The best way, as above, is avoidance of slackness. That isn’t always easy if you want to set off with the main halyard attached and unexpectedly hit a choppy patch that throws the halyard round the reflector. I don’t have a passive reflector on the mast now but it happened on our last boat. My solution, while on passage, was to attach the halyard to a weight in the form of a rubber bucket, with a light line down to the deck. Then it is necessary to swing the weight over the spreaders and lower to the deck, where it can be swung round to release the snag before being raised and recovered, the light line being to ensure that the halyard isn’t ‘lost’. Some sort of cage round the reflector might work, but even so a snag could occur.

 

[Sandy]

I thought about doing the same...

But then figured out that the halyard would only ever wrap around the radar reflector if it was both very slack and then left to flap around a bit as you went over a bit of swell.

Ensuring there's never enough slack in the halyard prevents this from happening.

Single handed in a big sea that has happened on a couple of occasions, hence trying to mitigate the risk in future.

And considering I can shimmy up the mast in seconds, it wasn't as if fitting a couple of bits of string would have been a lot of effort.

I'm not keen in climbing any man made object, a strange 'phobia' that has developed as I've got older.

 

[jamie N]

Sandy, not the most helpful response I realise, but how about getting rid of the 'Passive', and getting an 'Active' planted on the pushpit?
Solves every problem, and actually works.
I know; obvious and unhelpful........
Apologies.

 

[Sandy]

Sandy, not the most helpful response I realise, but how about getting rid of the 'Passive', and getting an 'Active' planted on the pushpit?
Solves every problem, and actually works.
I know; obvious and unhelpful........
Apologies.

I've given that a lot of though and have discussed it with none other than Jon Mendez, how is that for name dropping, when I did the RYA radar course a few years ago. For those who don't know he is the editor of the RYA Radar Course book and has done a lot of training videos on YouTube, in real life is just like he is on his YouTube stuff and a very nice man, the conclusion was to keep the passive one.

I run the radar, situated on a pole at the transom, when I need it or I'm trying to remember how to do a paper plot or do a fix with it. Having the radar transmitting works like an active reflector.

 

[roaringgirl]

I had a similar problem with mast-steps. I ended up zig-zagging a line between cap-shroud and each step from the spreader all the way to the masthead. No more problems. The same solution would work for you.

 

[Refueler]

Having the radar transmitting works like an active reflector.

Does it ?? mmmm think a bit of optimism creeping in there ...

To another radar - your radar in total appears just as a lump of metal sitting on your boat --- it is no better to another radar than if you were rotating a small metal bar.

 

[Sandy]

Does it ?? mmmm think a bit of optimism creeping in there ...

To another radar - your radar in total appears just as a lump of metal sitting on your boat --- it is no better to another radar than if you were rotating a small metal bar.

Do tell how an 'active' radar reflector differs from a radar... and then go on to explain how when a radar set is switched on the target return is 'stronger'.

 

[st599]

Having the radar transmitting works like an active reflector.

If the Radars have their antennas aligned, are operating at the same frequency, with the same pulse repetition frequency and you transmit at the exact microsecond the other radars pulse reaches you, you might get that result.

But what you actually get is an interference pattern that looks like curves radiating from the centre of the screen or more normally, nothing because the Radar interference rejection circuit filters them out.

 

[Refueler]

Do tell how an 'active' radar reflector differs from a radar... and then go on to explain how when a radar set is switched on the target return is 'stronger'.

Boy oh boy .....

Radar is is a Tx / Rx unit - that only responds to its own signal. It couldn't give a monkeys about another radar - except as st599 says - when interference patterns. Those interference are VERY VERY rare ... as the radar beam is directional vertically and horizontally.

Active Reflector is a unit that takes a radar signal that 'hits it'- then amplifies and pumps it back ... causing the origin radar to see the target.

Where does YOUR radar take the other signal .. amplify and send back ?

Look upon an active reflector as a unit that uses similar idea to that of of a Racon ... but without the ID pulse that shows on screen.

Stronger ?? So when you switch on your radar - you know that the OTHER radars see you 'stronger'??

Sorry but as a Certificated Radar operator ... I say your are mislead by someone ... whoever they may be.

 

[SimonKNZ]

Do tell how an 'active' radar reflector differs from a radar... and then go on to explain how when a radar set is switched on the target return is 'stronger'.

An active reflector is a transponder that transmits an omnidirectional pulse when it receives the pulse from another radar. Omni means it goes to the transmitting radar, and it's in sync so it appears as a target
Having your own radar transmitting is no good because your antenna and the other one have to be pointing at each other (main lobe or side lobe), and they're not in sync

 

[Refueler]

An active reflector is a transponder that transmits an omnidirectional pulse when it receives the pulse from another radar. Omni means it goes to the transmitting radar, and it's in sync so it appears as a target
Having your own radar transmitting is no good because your antenna and the other one have to be pointing at each other (main lobe or side lobe), and they're not in sync

Methinks someone told him a 'porky' .......

To another radar - the radar is basically an antenna - a dumb lump on your boat ... nothing else. Whether transmitting or not makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[dansaskip]

Similar to roaringgirl I run lines between the mast steps outer ends from top to bottom as tight as I can. It certainly helps prevents wraps although as others have pointed out keeping the halyard without slack helps too, I know not always easy to do. I use thin cord about 3mm.