Halon replacement for a 46 footer

There is an interesting letter in Dec MBM p 22 from the CEO of Firemaster challenging the two options given by MBM in Aug 03 (powder and foam) He says that the foam is not multi-pupose and has shortcomings to putting out gas related fires.
The ABC powder is suitable for all types of fires in his opinion.

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For what its worth, I think the banning of halon is ludicrous for small boats like ours and, since I believe halon to be the better than anything that is mooted as its replacement, I'm going to be hanging on to my halon extinguishers until their use by dates whatever the bureaucrats say. I cant believe that anyone is going to police this anyway and I'm not going to put my boat or family at greater risk to save the whales or whatever

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Interesting fact. Having just had my Sealine F33 approved for the BSS required on the Thames, I mentioned to the examiner about replacing the automatic halon extinguishers in the engine room. His comment was " not part of my remit ", and privately agreed that they were the best thing for the job. His remit only included the extinguishers requirement in the saloon etc. Does this mean that it's only the police and/or insurers who insist on the change? And if they are the best thing for the job what is the problem with the insurers? I would have thought that they would approve of hanging on to the existing method for the time being.

Like too much in this country we are being led by those who do not consult us. The law of unintended consequencies rules, OK ? But being good little Brits - we obey.

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I can understand the outlawing of the manufacture of potentially earth damaging substances but if the Halon has already been made and is sitting in our extinguishers then presumably it will be released bit by bit over the next decade. I can't believe that the Halon units that we throw away will be sucked dry and converted back to a safe material. How many will be thrown in the skip.

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Just to add to the debate, I work on a large ship and just over a year ago, whilst in dry dock in Newcastle, we replaced some of our Halon systems with FM200. We are now back in Denmark and are about to change the rest of our systems, plus the ships engine room's, with CO2. When I asked about FM200, the local company doing the work replied that FM200 is now also banned in most area of Europe. If this is so, why is it still being recommended in the UK as a Halon replacement??

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\\problems with Powder

There are some major draw-backs with powder:

1. Powder can settle and go semi-solid over time making it useless.
2. Anything that the powder comes into contact with will need to be replaced.
3. Once discharged into a room, visibility is reduced to ZERO; so, you won't know if the fire is out and you won't be able to see your exit route.

I have a Pyrogen system in my engine space, a hand-held halon and am about to replace two hand-held powder units with the latest high-voltage-safe AFFF units.

I hate powder!

Cheers, Jerry

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insurers

It is an insurance requirement to have extinguishers in the engine space if your vessel is deemed to be 'fast' as it then get a 'speedboat clause' which says extinuguishers etc etc

BSS is about protecting the people on board...speedboat clause is about mitigating the risk of loss of the hull (and potentially knock-on effect of death/injury which would also be insured perils under your policy). Just a bit of a grey area about the end-to-end idea of protection.

Free lifeboat seacheck may help...we had a very long and interesting chat when the guy came to see me - he was very sail boaty though...

I am certainly not disposing of my Halon but want to fit an 'approved' extinguisher as well

<hr width=100% size=1>mailto: stefan@athito.com
 
I will keep the HALON system onboard, (like Deleted User). Halon is still in use in aircraft and it is not outlawed there as it is highly effective in closed areas, like passenger planes. Halon is outlawed because it could contribute to depleting the Earth's ozone layer. As the Environmental Protection Dept now concedes since outlawing it, Halon is a highly effective agent for fire fighting in closed passenger carrying areas. Even if it is not needed for fire extinguishing, it is the best fire insurance policy you can buy.
HALON 1211 AND 1301 LIQUID EXTINGUISHERS are the only fire extinguishers that won't choke you unlike dry powder ones. Halon works to extinguish fires by using a liquid that turns to gas when it is sprayed into a fire. The gas displaces oxygen to rob the fire of oxygen and cause it to go out. If you spray Halon into the air, it disappears almost as soon as it is sprayed but adds to ozone layer depletion. My point here is if there is no fire, there will be no need to spray the Halon. The fact is when it is used to extinguish fires, it is neutralised by the fire as it extinguishes it anyway. Even the approved way to dispose of unwanted Halon is to release the gas into a furnace which neutralises the chemistry of the Halon. I dont think this has been fully researched. surley???

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In case you haven't spotted it there is also a feature in December's MBM on how to go about choosing and fitting a replacement to your old automatic Halon extinguisher

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Love the user name! And agree with what you say

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We are in the same position, just bought our boat 39' and we need to replace the Halon extinguishers, what exactly are the alternatives, we have also been told we need to fit an auto engine shutdown system and fire Extinguihsers in the fuel tank area as well??. Does anyone no a good source of information online for this

Thanks

P.S Handheld waterproof VHF and GPS needed any recommendations

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First time I've seen you on the forum. Welcome from me - and thanks for reminding me where I had seen the extinguisher information before, I was trying to remember. I'll have to dig my copy out. Still doesn't mean I'm going to replace my halon kit though!

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re: my earlier post regarding use of FM200. Having researched a bit more, it seems like I was losing something in the Danish translation. FM200 is in fact the approved direct replacement for Halon but it requirfes around 3 times the volume to do the same job. The reason we are converting parts of the ship are because they are very large spaces and CO2 is much more agressive than FM200. However, FM200 will support life, whereas CO2 will not. I am replacing my auto halon extinguisher because I noticed when I removed it for engine replacement, that it was down in the red so needs replacement anyhow.
Check <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sea-fire.com>here</A> for FM200 replacements.

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Re: \\problems with Powder

2. Anything that the powder comes into contact with will need to be replaced.

Not so, I dischared a powder extinguisher over my engine this season, it put the electrical fire out in less than 1 sec, I was very impressed. Yes, the stuff is bloody messy, we spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning with damp cloths, but have not felt the need to replace anything yet.

3. Once discharged into a room, visibility is reduced to ZERO; so, you won't know if the fire is out and you won't be able to see your exit route.

Agreed, and the air is unbreathable, as soon as I had discharged the extinguisher I had to retreat back to the cockpit, and then spent 20secs running back down to the engine room with a wet tea towel covering my nose and mouth to check everything was out. Bildge blowers might cure this problem. It scared me, that had I not extinguished the fire with the first extinguisher I may have had problems staying down long enough with reduced visiblity to set off the second.

On the up side, the replacements are £20.00 for 2 Kidde (top marks in PBO) from COSTCO.

I have a Pyrogen system in my engine space, a hand-held halon and am about to replace two hand-held powder units with the latest high-voltage-safe AFFF units.

I hate powder!

Yes, but it does what it says on the tin, it is 100% at putting out fires, you cannot argue with its effectivness.



<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

TC_COIN.GIF
 
We have just replaced our Halon firefighting system with Inergen - which is a mixture of Nitrogen, CO2 and Oxygen.
The idea is that when it's fired off the Oxygen levels are reduced to below flammable limits while still allowing anyone in the area to escape.

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