grounding with lifting keel

[rustyred]

looking at buying a lifting keel boat, are there any owners out there who can advise. are you able to take the ground ie hard to enable scrubbing off without falling over, or do you need legs, considering a duellist 32, also does anyone have any knowledge of these boats.
many thanks c_c

 

[Flossdog]

We have a Southerly and it is brilliant. Takes the ground very well on its cast iron grounding plate. On hard sand for example, no fibreglass is taking any weight. Would not though, want to take ground with rocks around. Haven't tried drying out on a hard (concrete) but would guess that it would be OK though. When dried out it is difficult to get at the under reaches of the hull for scrubbing but then most of the fouling is from the waterline down until the hull starts to curve towards horizontal. One advantage of a lifting keel is that when ashore over the winter, it cannot fall over in gales like many a fin keeler!

 

[seumask]

You will find that there are a variety of liftkeelers out there, ranging from those that lift the keel completely to those that leave quite a lot protruding, and will usually need some form of legs to dry out upright. We have one that the keel completly retracts into the hull and hence can be parked on the bottom nice and flat but you cant reach the bits in touch with the ground, however as it sits on sand at low tide these area's are free of fouling which gets rubbed off by the sand. examples of fully retracting lift keelers in the UK include, all the Parkers, some seal's, Hunter Delta's and Medina's, southerly's, some jaguars eg 21 and 23, jeaneu sun 2000's, sunfast 20.
At the other end of the scale you have bilge keelers which can usually take the ground standing upright but higher up in the air.

 

[Beadle]

Yes

I had a Parker 31 for many years and frequently did this.

Whats more I could use the keel as an anchor/brake. For scrubbing I'd motor slowly to the point I wanted with the keel fully retracted.

When I was happy with the spot I'd drop the keel until it rested on the bottom and the boat would sit there as the tide dropped without having to mess with ropes etc. Just like putting the handbrake on!

Spectators could not understand how it worked, great fun.

 

[ChiPete]

We have a Beneteau Oceanis 323 with the lifting keel. We wouldn't be without it - allows us to get into places we wouldn't be able to at states of tide that we couldn't get near with a fin-keeler, allows us to ground her when needs be, and allows us to retract for differing points of sail.

Probably the only minor complaint is that it takes 100 turns to go either completely up or completely down and Mrs Pete starts to complain after about 60 turns ;-))

 

[Beadle]

Oh how old fashioned.

The Parker had an electrically powered hydraulic system.

All you had to do was push the button and up it came.

The keel had a 5ft wing on the bottom (solid lead) which was the main ballast of the boat - I would not have liked to lift that by hand.

The wing also mad a good platform for the boat to sit on, on hard ground the hull itself did not touch the ground.

 

[johnalison]

I knew a boat which didn't enjoy taking the mud; it would end up with the saloon full of mud which had come up the centreboard-case. Must be pretty uncommon with modern boats though.

 

[PhilipH]

Yes - best is if most of the ballast is in the boat and not the keel. We have an OVNI and have dried out on a concrete drying pad - went down at the previous low tide with a brush and hosepipe to clear any stones etc

 

[Searush]

I remember meeting an Elizabethan on the Hoyle Bank once (in the early 80's) where he was busy poking at the dried mud & stones jamming his keel in the slot.

Apparently he had dried out in soft mud & stones which had filled the case and slowly dried out leaving a densely packed "brick" of solid clay & pebbles all around the keel.

Not a common problem I suspect, but one worth keeping in mind when drying out - especially if on a mud berth & not lowering the keel for a few weeks.

 

[Alfie168]

I don't think my Dehler 22 would take the ground too happily. The keel retracts upwards OK (100+ winds of the handle) but there is a stub keel which contains the water ballast tank, so unless its mud I think she would keel over. I've wondered about some shortish legs, but can't think how to attach them without making holes or otherwise making a mess of the topsides.

Tim

 

[cid]

hi , look at the kelt 8.50. Great roomy craft. sits up right,but like most lifters its hard to get at the keel 2 antifoul.you can heel it over somewhat and scrub most of the hull. It has a shoe it sits on.

 

[Avocet]

We had an Evolution 22 once and that dried out nice and flat but we had to remember to pull the log impeller up each time! It is GRP all the way round with ballast inside the hull so the GRP in contact with the concrete would have a hard time. Pretty much impossible to scrub / antifoul the bottom though. Needed to lift the boat in the club hoist, do as much as possible and then move the slings.

 

[SwedishLass]

For de barnacle work when dried it was impossible to reach area between keels as she sat on it beautifully.
Tool devised was a garden hoe with the right angle blade (Dutch hoe?) strap a fender to the back to give it buoyancy and keep it against hull. If weather warm enjoy the swim but just as easy to use from tender.
Mud in keelboxes was not an issue as there is space between keels and box.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

We have a Southerly too now, but before that a Redfox 200E. Both very good boats, although Select Yachts seem keen to push only their bilge keeler version of the RF , badged as the Hunter 20.

RF good in that out on a mooring, no centreplate to raise centre of gravity, so v. stable in bad weather.

 

[homa]

Just a thought about the design of how the keel is raised or lowered...

I had a Hunter Delta 25 with lift keel. The keel could be raised flush with the bottom. This was great for taking the ground BUT the keel protruded into the cabin and was not fully enclosed, so when the keel was raised you had a wet, smelly and sometimes muddy keel protruding into the main saloon.
The other thing was, that if the keel was only partially raised/lowered, it was quite slack in the keel slot and would bang about in any waves, because of this and the fact that the keel rose vertically, if you hit the bottom at speed the keel could jam. I once did this and eventually had to get a car jack to release the jammed keel. I have to say here that the Delta keel was designed to be bolted when in the down position.

These are just my observations, but I would suggest you look at the design of keels closely, personally I would have preferred a swing keel, but many of these like the Dehler swing into a stub keel, so are not entirely flush, advantages of this type is that cabin space is not compromised.
Delta was good in that it was a hydraulic system, so low maintenance and all the ballast was in the keel so a very stiff boat when keel down.

At the time the Parkers were top of my list, but outside my budget. I came very close to buying a Dehler 25, now they are really pretty sailing boats with a clever water ballast system. One of the few water ballast boats of that size that I would be happy crossing the channel in.