griffon keels

[paulsmith]

I will shortly be looking for a Westerly Griffon.The subject of bilge keel bolt fixing weakness keeps cropping up in tests etc. one pbo test said that most early ones will of been strengthened by now.How will I know if the strengthening job has been done.what am I looking for ? any other comments re Griffons gratefully received

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimbouy]

I imagine it will be similar to my Centaur.

You need to look around the area of the keel bolt heads.

Either the GRP will have been thickened up, or possibly the washers on the individual keel bolts may have been replaced with one long strip of metal with all the bolts thru it.

More likely is additional transvers stiffening. Small webs across the hull at regualr intervals, to stop the hull flexing.

Or a combination of all of these.

As well as seeing that something has been done to treat the problem you need to be able to see that it has been done well.


Jim

<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"

 

[iacle]

Jimbouy's last point is important - a friend had to have his Centaur's keels done twice as the first job was inadequate - despite being done professionally. It is also important that transverse stiffening webs are incorporated. Maybe if you start by looking at a mk2 you will know what you should see on a mk1 . There's quite a price diffence between the two, so if you found a nice mk1 it may be worth buying & having the keel modifications done by a specialist.

ian

<hr width=100% size=1>Ian

 

[jimbouy]

Lets just say the Centaur I have just purchased had some transverse stiffners, but as the surveyor pointed out... they were too small and in places delaminating.

£800 later all is now Ok.

<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"

 

[flaming]

We had a Griffon mk1 from new, finally sold it in 96. Never knew about any keel problems, but then ours was kept afloat. From what I've read since I believe the problems mainly aplied to those boats kept on drying moorings.

Other than that, good little boats. Not the quickest in the light stuff but inspire confidence as the breeze pipes up.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Marsupial]

I dont know about the Griffon but I do know of two people who have had big trouble with westerly keels.

One a centaur the boat sank while under sail when a keel fell off (river orwell 1994 ish), when the keel was recovered it was still bolted firmly to a piece of elipital shaped hull. It seems that westerly used plugs in the hull to attach the keels, that way they only made one hull for fin or bilge. Over time the joint gives up, or at least it did on that boat - dont know if it was a mark one or two - sorry.

The other a 1970's Berwick owner found the hull had been flexing because an eliptical shaped crack began to appear where the fin keel would have been if there had been one, lots of water came in (Essex 1998 ish).

Both boats were repaired OK.

Any boat with splayed bilge keels suffers from the hull flexing problem, its more apparent if the boat dries out on/in soft mud every day. The suction created as the boat floats out of the mud when the tide comes in puts tremendous strain on the hull and the hull to keel joints.

As pervious post have said bigger transverse stringers cures it.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Evadne]

A friend recently bought another Westerly, a GK29, that had been inadequately strengthened. A throw-away comment he was given at the yard was that all Westerlys were inadquate in this respect, when new. Bound to be an exaggeration, Westerly owners needn't tink I agreee with that statement but it is something you should look out for, there is a grain of truth in there.
In his case it was an amateur job, and the "strengthening" was peeled back to reveal 10-year old bilge oil and crud under the fibreglass. Very little to give it away, just a couple of hairline cracks and some water oozing out from under the extra layers of GRP. The surveyor didn't spot it, and few boats will be so poor, but if you're paranoid about it then you won't get stung.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[geoffatstanpit]

Not a Griffon but a Konsort - and a fin keel version. I was involved with one in the 80's and it seemed fine till we had her lifted out and propped up one winter. All the cabin sole boards jumped out and a straightedge across the floors revealed that the back edge of the keel was pushing the bottom up by a couple of inches!

We hastily put a few more props under the hull and got her back in the water as soon as possible. We sailed her for another couple of years with fingers crossed.

I wonder if she's still floating? I'd better not reveal identities!

Geoff

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[grimmy]

Hi, I would just like to balance up some of the other posts by saying that the 1983 Griffon (mk2) which I owned for seven years up to 2003 had no problems in this respect whatsoever. She was kept on a drying mud berth for a number of years before I owned her and I would often dry her out for one reason or another. On one occasion whilst drying out on a concrete slab one keel slipped over the edge into soft mud so that the weight of the boat was effectively pushing the keels apart. I susequently had a surveyor look at the keels and there were no problems. In the whole time I owned her I never once had to use the bilge pump, she was an extremely dry boat. I believe the early problems were due to hull flexing and this was overcome by the addition of transverse stiffing (srtingers?), on my boat these were quite substantial so you could not miss them. IMHO they are a really robust boat with a lot of qualities and the sailing performance was reasonably good particularly once I got new sails, for the cruising sailor with a family who also wants to sail singlehanded I would say they are certainly the best 26 footer I am aware of. If you want more info on the keels try the Westerly O.C.

<hr width=100% size=1>