Greta, Trump and similar topics

[franksingleton]

It is clear that any thread relating to Greta on this or other forums quickly becomes more appropriate to Climate. Similarly, but maybe less often so do threads involving Trump. It would be easier for all if they started under Climate in the first place. Whether that would lead to more sensible discussion is not clear but it would save the moderators having to block discussion. Maybe I and others should not respond to posts referring to climate on other forums but it is difficult to sit back and ignore nonsensical posts without reacting. I and others are quite happy to answer sensible posts in a sensible manner. Unfortunately, there are posters who seem incapable of discussing issues surrounding climate in a rational, civilised manner.

 

[Beneteau381]

It is clear that any thread relating to Greta on this or other forums quickly becomes more appropriate to Climate. Similarly, but maybe less often so do threads involving Trump. It would be easier for all if they started under Climate in the first place. Whether that would lead to more sensible discussion is not clear but it would save the moderators having to block discussion. Maybe I and others should not respond to posts referring to climate on other forums but it is difficult to sit back and ignore nonsensical posts without reacting. I and others are quite happy to answer sensible posts in a sensible manner. Unfortunately, there are posters who seem incapable of discussing issues surrounding climate in a rational, civilised manner.

A troll? The assumption that anyone who doesnt agree with your thoughts is “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner” How patronising. I am asking the mods to move this where it belongs. I dont care to go in the Lounge with all the vitriol going on there and I dont think we should have stuff like this here.

 

[lw395]

Threads about climate change activists are catered for in the climate change sub forum. It's not a difficult concept.

 

[Beneteau381]

Threads about climate change activists are catered for in the climate change sub forum. It's not a difficult concept.

Indeed.

 

[franksingleton]

A troll? The assumption that anyone who doesnt agree with your thoughts is “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner” How patronising. I am asking the mods to move this where it belongs. I dont care to go in the Lounge with all the vitriol going on there and I dont think we should have stuff like this here.

It is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing. I have seen so many posts over the years making totally incorrect assertions about climate science, climate scientists and data, sometimes quite scurrilous. I have seen categorical statements by people who clearly have no idea about atmospheric physics. What I am saying here is that statements, claims etc about climate should be in the climate forum. Too often threads start sensibly but degenerate into slanging matches about climate and climate scientists. The moderators are quite correct in wanting to keep climate discussions on a dedicated forum. I suppose, really, that I am just asking forumites to avoid thread drift. If you really want to discuss the problem, and there is plenty of room for discussion, please come to the correct forum. Do your reading, get your facts straight and contribute from a position of strength and knowledge. I and, I am sure, others will be only too happy to engage in informed debate. What is wrong with that?

 

[laika]

Threads about climate change activists are catered for in the climate change sub forum. It's not a difficult concept.

Threads about public figures doing something boaty have every right to be in scuttlebutt. Discussion of the politics that figure represents, particularly in the presence of people unable to conduct a reasonable discussion without shouty tribalism, belongs elsewhere. If Donald Trump decides to sail the ICW to meet "floating voters" that's boaty. The prudence of his fiscal policies unrelated to boating are not. It's not as though anyone has their opinion changed in these exchanges: It's just dogs barking their pack allegiance.

Maybe I and others should not respond to posts referring to climate on other forums but it is difficult to sit back and ignore nonsensical posts without reacting.

"Responding" is fuelling more nonsense which doesn't belong here. Others then "respond" and the thread is ruined.

Any sensible person knows you avoid contentious non-boating issues when you get invited for drinks on a neighbour's boat while cruising. How hard can it be to apply that philosophy here so we can politely discuss boating?

 

[doug748]

A troll? The assumption that anyone who doesnt agree with your thoughts is “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner” How patronising. I am asking the mods to move this where it belongs. I dont care to go in the Lounge with all the vitriol going on there and I dont think we should have stuff like this here.

No, I'm starting to change my mind.

I've slept on the idea now and the OP's suggestion is a winner; one person should tell us the truth on each matter. Discussion would be far more balanced and less troublesome between people who agreed with each other. Stands to reason.
Politics, ethics, morality - no worries if the right person is in charge. It's not rocket science.

Less of these wishy washy ideas that don't fit with what a sound man knows to be the truth. ignorant people who don't understand and don't have the education could put in their little questions and be told the correct thinking on each topic.
The problem is partly with the education system, people learn a bit and than start getting ideas of their own, you need a firm hand where the absolute truth is concerned. As my old German teacher used to tell us:

“Say what you like about Hitler at least we knew our place”

If anyone started getting gobby we can just say: “You are an ignorant in this matter, I have been very patient, any more and it's a months shore leave” Perfect.

Lets face it these people spend ages looking on the internet, reading and reflecting on their own experience when all they need to do is ask one of our acknowledged experts and get the correct answer right off.

RichardS could deal with the matter of cosmic divinity and put the stoptap on millennia of vapid thought. Viago would be the man for the urban zeitgeist.
I could do anchors no problem; just submit your query in detail and I would tell you what to buy quick as a flash - 10lb Plough 100mtrs 10mm chain etc. Tell you now, there would be no frigging about with bits of rope. But I digress.

Personally I would like to know which half of the nation is correct on Europe.

I am sure one of us knows.
?

 

[Biggles Wader]

Id just like you to stick this tripe in the lounge where it belongs. How many locked threads does it take for you to get the message?

 

[franksingleton]

No, I'm starting to change my mind.

I've slept on the idea now and the OP's suggestion is a winner; one person should tell us the truth on each matter. Discussion would be far more balanced and less troublesome between people who agreed with each other. Stands to reason.
Politics, ethics, morality - no worries if the right person is in charge. It's not rocket science.

Less of these wishy washy ideas that don't fit with what a sound man knows to be the truth. ignorant people who don't understand and don't have the education could put in their little questions and be told the correct thinking on each topic.
The problem is partly with the education system, people learn a bit and than start getting ideas of their own, you need a firm hand where the absolute truth is concerned. As my old German teacher used to tell us:

“Say what you like about Hitler at least we knew our place”

If anyone started getting gobby we can just say: “You are an ignorant in this matter, I have been very patient, any more and it's a months shore leave” Perfect.

Lets face it these people spend ages looking on the internet, reading and reflecting on their own experience when all they need to do is ask one of our acknowledged experts and get the correct answer right off.

RichardS could deal with the matter of cosmic divinity and put the stoptap on millennia of vapid thought. Viago would be the man for the urban zeitgeist.
I could do anchors no problem; just submit your query in detail and I would tell you what to buy quick as a flash - 10lb Plough 100mtrs 10mm chain etc. Tell you now, there would be no frigging about with bits of rope. But I digress.

Personally I would like to know which half of the nation is correct on Europe.

I am sure one of us knows.

IMHO you are confusing unfounded assertion with rational argument. But, if you want to test that, try it on the climate sub forum. None of us is an expert. The subject is too wide.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

A troll? The assumption that anyone who doesnt agree with your thoughts is “nonsensical” not “sensible” “incapable of discussing issues .... in a rational, civilised manner” How patronising. I am asking the mods to move this where it belongs. I dont care to go in the Lounge with all the vitriol going on there and I dont think we should have stuff like this here.

Irony at its finest.

 

[lw395]

Threads about public figures doing something boaty have every right to be in scuttlebutt. Discussion of the politics that figure represents, particularly in the presence of people unable to conduct a reasonable discussion without shouty tribalism, belongs elsewhere. If Donald Trump decides to sail the ICW to meet "floating voters" that's boaty. The prudence of his fiscal policies unrelated to boating are not. It's not as though anyone has their opinion changed in these exchanges: It's just dogs barking their pack allegiance.
...

Agreed.
If somebody had some boat related comment about maybe the way they sailed. their weather routing tactics, equipment they were using or anything else that might be relevant to yachting it would belong in the yachty forum.

 

[Beneteau381]

Indeed and this is what this forum is about. Laika is quite correct, all that shouty stuff achieves nothing! Tribalism is unfortunately where we are now. Hurling insults may make grumpy old men feel good but achieves nothing!

 

[capnsensible]

News – Team Malizia

 

[JumbleDuck]

It is clear that any thread relating to Greta on this or other forums quickly becomes more appropriate to Climate.

It will be a cold day in hell before I participate in a sub-forum of The Lounge (sponsored by Der Stürmer)

 

[lw395]

Of course in the Lounge, the eco enthusiasts can argue with those boat owners who buy their diesel by the thousand litres ...

 

[franksingleton]

There are good reasons for the establishment of the climate sub-forum. Examples are the silliness in the recent Greta threads in this forum. When climate was discussed in the main Lounge forum, again, there was much silliness, sometimes quite nasty and irrational. On several occasions, moderators had to draw the curtain.Having all climate issues confined to the sub-forum makes it easier for moderators to apply the brake when necessary. It is a matter for individual good judgement whether or not forumites wish to contribute rationally or not.

 

[dom]

Climate change is arguably the most important threat facing the world today.

Yet the hysterical attitude of the anarchistic Extinction Rebellion and other eco-warriors, alongside their readiness to point the finger at big business -- including industries which are investing billions in green technology -- ensures that this important issue is all too often demoted to backwater status.

The Lounge's climate sub-forum is a perfect example; a virtual fight club for old codgers whose spirit is alive, but whose fists have grown too old for their weekly pub puck-up

 

[franksingleton]

Climate change is arguably the most important threat facing the world today.

Agree 100%

Yet the hysterical attitude of the anarchistic Extinction Rebellion and other eco-warriors, alongside their readiness to point the finger at big business -- including industries which are investing billions in green technology -- ensures that this important issue is all too often demoted to backwater status.

I applaud XR motives, I deplore their tactics. By the same token. I regard Greta’s Atlantic crossing as a stubt that is all too obvious to us sailors.

The Lounge's climate sub-forum is a perfect example; a virtual fight club for old codgers whose spirit is alive, but whose fists have grown too old for their weekly pub puck-up

I probably come in the old codger age category but my personal concern all along has been to have the scientific reality of climate change understood. As someone with a background firmly rooted in the science of the atmosphere I am, naturally, frustrated at some of what I can only describe as ignorant posts sometimes about the science, sometime about the scientists who see the dangers all too clearly. Some of us who take the subject seriously are of like mind.
I welcome signs that some industrial organisations are taking positive action. But the main impetus has to come from governments. There are glimmers of hope even in the US where nationally, despite Trump, some states, usually coastal, are moving in the right direction.,

As far as the sub-forum is concerned I and, I am sure some others, will try to keep discussion on a rational basis. I hope that threads will not be hi-jacked by the lunatic frings as has occurred in the past.

 

[franksingleton]

Deleted

 

[dom]

.............my personal concern all along has been to have the scientific reality of climate change understood. As someone with a background firmly rooted in the science of the atmosphere I am, naturally, frustrated at some of what I can only describe as ignorant posts sometimes about the science, sometime about the scientists who see the dangers all too clearly. Some of us who take the subject seriously are of like mind.
I welcome signs that some industrial organisations are taking positive action. But the main impetus has to come from governments. There are glimmers of hope even in the US where nationally, despite Trump, some states, usually coastal, are moving in the right direction.,

To be honest Frank, you as far as I can tell are by far the most knowledge of us about weather, and for that reason an invaluable asset to this sailing forum. You are clearly somebody we should all be listening to most closely. Not to mention that your arguments are invariably polite and evidence based.

The trouble with the climate debate, IMHO, is that disagreements may in no small measure be traced to the anarchists - feted by left of centre politicians - who managed to tribalise this important issue with a split appearing broadly down the lines between left and right and between developed and emerging economies. And for that reason I think the Extinction Rebellion, and I'm sorry to say Greta too, have generally done more harm than good.

Not to mention that China and India are dragging their heels, that countries like Indonesia and Malaysia are effectively being plundered by EU bio-fuel regulations, that the United States has backed away, all while parts of the world are slowly sinking.

Sad.