Greek banks and yards

[Mr Cassandra]

I was told today, that if your Greek boat yard go`s bust and the bank forclose on them, the bank then own your boat and you cannot get it back untill you pay the bank its value.

Anybody know anything different ?
cheers bobt

 

[OldBawley]

From what I have been told banks own most of the yachts. Ours was paid for in cash a long time ago. I tried to get a loan but the bank manager said they did not lend money for racehorses and yachts. They could not know the real value. How true he was.
Things change.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

From what I have been told banks own most of the yachts. Ours was paid for in cash a long time ago. I tried to get a loan but the bank manager said they did not lend money for racehorses and yachts. They could not know the real value. How true he was.
Things change.

Hello
I almost introduced myself to you last week when you were tied up in Poros, you were busy at the time perhaps next year, have a good winter.
cheers bobt

 

[Carmel2]

I would have thought that a bank loan would be based on assets that were in place at the time of the loan being granted, not on something as transient as yachts using the marina.

 

[Chris_Robb]

They may well prevent launching until all dues are paid, and also for work done. ie they will take a lien on the boat.

If you have paid for an annual berth, you will be just a creditor for the unexpired period, so will probably have to pay again.

 

[OldBawley]

Thanks, rtboss, I look forward to winter.
We had a visitor for a week and as you will have noticed our boat is way to small to sleep a visitor, certainly one of his size. Even his hotel bed was to small.
I have tried everything to get my friend on board. The two of us in the dingy, we sank. ( February in Fethiye freezing cold water ) borrowed a big inflatable dingy, unfortunately without rigid bottom, he went trough and I had a big repair to make. An other year I borrowed an aluminium rigid dingy. No good ether.
The chef ( He is a chef cook ) rowed to the hotel pontoon after one of his magic cooking sessions. One hour later, the Fethiye coastguard knocks us out of our bed, they had found him in the dark, in the bay, peddling with one oar against a good force five. Turns out our chef can stir with the left hand and cut vegetables at the same time with the right, but dos not know how to row. We had tilted a few bottles of red as well.
So this time, against all my principals, we moored on a town quay to get our chef on and off the boat. First time in two years, man was that exiting.

 

[macd]

I was told today, that if your Greek boat yard go`s bust and the bank forclose on them, the bank then own your boat and you cannot get it back untill you pay the bank its value.

Anybody know anything different ?

I don't know any different, but that sounds plain daft. The bank/receiver might prevent you launching until you've paid what you owe (and if I were a bank shareholder I'd bloody well hope so). But how can ownership pass when the yard never had it in the first place?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My GUESS - and IANAL or even an accountant - is that any debts to the boatyard become immediately due on bankruptcy, and the bank then has a lien on boats that owe the marina any charges, and can prevent them moving until those debts (which may be simply a night's mooring) are paid in full.

 

[mocruising]

The bloo** garbage some people spout and other take on board.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

The bloo** garbage some people spout and other take on board.

Actually it was a yard owner who told me. That it has happened before in 2008 at Olympic marine. And no, he was not knocking his competitors, we were discussing what happened to me there the year later. 2009 when they impounded my boat, because I would not accept their inflated estimate for work.

Also the question in the original post "does anyone know any different.?"

Not. "does anybody wish it was different?". Discuss perhaps not dismiss.

 

[macd]

Let's hope NCP doesn't go bust. Their creditors would own an awful lot of cars.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Let's hope NCP doesn't go bust. Their creditors would own an awful lot of cars.

You're missing the point, its Greek law and their banks that we are discussing.

 

[jordanbasset]

Actually it was a yard owner who told me. That it has happened before in 2008 at Olympic marine.

Can I confirm you are saying Olympic Marine went bust in 2008 and the bank foreclosed on them, the bank then own the boats there and no one could get their boats back until they paid the Banks it's value.
If so I am surprised more have not heard of it.

 

[macd]

Can I confirm you are saying Olympic Marine went bust in 2008 and the bank foreclosed on them, the bank then own the boats there and no one could get their boats back until they paid the Banks it's value.
If so I am surprised more have not heard of it.

Like you, I'm pretty incredulous. However, rtboss1 has never said that's the case, simply that he was told so by someone who might be in a position to know. I suspect that someone, somewhere got the wrong end of the stick, but that's just swapping one suspicion for another. I don't know.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Can I confirm you are saying Olympic Marine went bust in 2008 and the bank foreclosed on them, the bank then own the boats there and no one could get their boats back until they paid the Banks it's value.
If so I am surprised more have not heard of it.

Yes, that what I was told and knowing about Greek practises, I think there may be truth in what was said. This is not English law I know but there again we are not talking about British yards ,or multistory car parks

 

[Mistroma]

Yes, that what I was told and knowing about Greek practises, I think there may be truth in what was said. This is not English law I know but there again we are not talking about British yards ,or multistory car parks

No, but it is a reasonable analogy. I know Greek bankruptcy codes changed a few years ago to simplify old confusing processes. However, I think you'll need to get a Greek lawyer to confirm your point.

I wouldn't worry about losing my boat in these circumstances. However, I would worry about getting agreement from all relevant parties about how much I needed to pay to get my boat out of the yard. Not too different from time you were held to ransom. The yard might have lost the legal battle but they had your boat until you spent time and money freeing it.

I'd guess that the story arose because some people couldn't get their boats launched until several parties agreed to amount they owed. I think that creditors still need to vote on the plan to sort out a failed company's affairs nowadays and they want all their money back. So it is probably more a matter of extended negotiation to get your boat, not that you've lost ownership. Not much comfort for the owner (especially as I think there's a time limit of 15 years max. to wind up proceedings).

I had similar worries about Spain and arranged to pay 50% initially and remainder after launching. I don't expect the yard to have a problem but if they do I'd hope to get away with paying the remaining 3 month storage (or possibly 6 months owing only 3 months).

 

[jimbaerselman]

I wouldn't worry about losing my boat in these circumstances. However, I would worry about getting agreement from all relevant parties about how much I needed to pay to get my boat out of the yard. <snip> The yard might have lost the legal battle but they had your boat until you spent time and money freeing it.

Exactly.

And not peculiar to Greece.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

No, but it is a reasonable analogy. I know Greek bankruptcy codes changed a few years ago to simplify old confusing processes. However, I think you'll need to get a Greek lawyer to confirm your point.

Hi
I don't think I will bother with a Greek lawyer, as it was only a conversation with a yard owner , it did make me think though, what if he`s correct and if the Greek bank crisis means calling in its loans, how would it affect private boat owner storing their boats, in the then bankrupt yards?

 

[Glyka]

Yes, that what I was told and knowing about Greek practises, I think there may be truth in what was said. This is not English law I know but there again we are not talking about British yards ,or multistory car parks

Do you really think that, in a democratic country, there could be a law that confiscates somebody else's property for your own debts?
Don't forget that Greece has a history of about 2.500 years of law, courts and justice. Not many countries can beat that.
Greek law is:
a. complicated because people, not just lawyers, try and find one single word that they can twist to suit them so laws are full of clarification and exceptions' ammendments.
b. slow, as Greeks like to go to court and there are thousands of pending lawsuits and appeals.
but it is not paranoid.

P.S. Greek (written) constitution protects individual property and no law can change that.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

It's Greece, Bob! Relax and go with the flow - just like you've told me to on similar issues regarding those crooks in the past!