Greece - implications for owners/liveaboards if UK was to leave EU...

[V1701]

I'm thinking of having a boat in Greece & working towards living there up to 6 months a year, how would I and others doing similar be affected were we to leave the EU? I've only just really started researching so any views/advice welcome...
Thanks in advance for any replies...

 

[macd]

If the UK left the EU you'd have no plans to go sailing, anyway: if hell froze over, so would the Med.

 

[V1701]

If the UK left the EU you'd have no plans to go sailing, anyway: if hell froze over, so would the Med.

But if we have a referendum, half the population will try to vote us out to stop the immigrants won't they? Sorry straying into lounge territory...

 

[macd]

Yes, I suppose it is a bit loungy (although your question wasn't). Perhaps inevitable.
But to look on the other side of the ice, if the UK did indeed pull out of the EU, Sterling would plummet so fast very few of us could afford extended periods in the Eurozone, anyway.
FWIW (not much, maybe) I'd probably naturalise Greek or Irish, or pretty well anything rather than align myself with those stupid Brits. Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[V1701]

So maybe a bad idea to go buying & keeping a boat in Greece right now?

 

[skpt]

no it's lovely place and still will be whatever happens

 

[Tony Cross]

The system currently operated by Greece is that non-EU vessels with non-EU owners can obtain a 6-month transit log (don't know the cost) after which they must leave Greece. I'm not sure how long they have to stay out before they can come back.

So you'd be ok for the first 6-months and, provided you and your boat stayed out for the requisite period, the next 6-months too.

 

[Carmel2]

What would it cost to re-flag the boat? In the meantime ignore Ukip and the Daily Mail.

 

[Marsupial]

The system currently operated by Greece is that non-EU vessels with non-EU owners can obtain a 6-month transit log (don't know the cost) after which they must leave Greece. I'm not sure how long they have to stay out before they can come back.

So you'd be ok for the first 6-months and, provided you and your boat stayed out for the requisite period, the next 6-months too.

not sure about that, many Greek owned boats are registered in Delaware and they don't leave every 6 months. Indeed Delaware registered boats not owned by Greeks don't leave either. But if Greece left the Euro nothing much would happen business as usual with Drachma as well as Dollars, Pounds and the odd Euro same as now, but as others have said if the United Kingdom left Europe then that may cause a ripple or two - but I doubt it.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Don't give up on Greece. What ever happens it will still be some of the best cruising on the planet.
Just reflag your boat onto the UK small ships registry, costs sod all, as many Greeks do. Then enjoy.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

If the UK left Europe and Greece didn't then I assume a Brit boat would be treated the same as a US boat in EU waters. Have a look on Noonsite to get an idea how it *might* pan out.

http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Greece?rc=Formalities#Restrictions

 

[Tony Cross]

not sure about that, many Greek owned boats are registered in Delaware and they don't leave every 6 months. Indeed Delaware registered boats not owned by Greeks don't leave either. But if Greece left the Euro nothing much would happen business as usual with Drachma as well as Dollars, Pounds and the odd Euro same as now, but as others have said if the United Kingdom left Europe then that may cause a ripple or two - but I doubt it.

Well that came from an item posted on the Cruising Association website recently. It concerned the way a CA member whose yacht is registered in the Channel Islands was being treated by the Greek authorities as a non-EU boat. He had written to the British ship registry and had published (with permission) a letter from them on the CA website. The gist of their reply is what I have quoted above.

I know about the Delaware and Connecticut registered Greek boats of course, in the summer there is one two-down from me, I know the owner well. The Greek authorities quite naturally have one rule for Greeks (especially those with political clout, influential friends, or deep pockets) and another rule for everyone else.

For those of us in Greece I think that the UK leaving the EU would cause us more problems than Greece leaving the EU. I suspect it's all hypothetical anyway.

 

[grafozz]

If the UK left the EU you'd have no plans to go sailing, anyway: if hell froze over, so would the Med.

excellent !

forum wit - at the sharp end

 

[tri39]

Plenty of Norwegian and Swiss boats managing to stay in the Med.
And there's always the option of wintering outside the EU, Tunisa or Israel for example.
But speaking as someone who's in favour of independence, I don't expect it to happen.
What's much more likely is that the euro will split in two, north and south!

 

[jordanbasset]

I think it is unlikely but if it did happen I do not think for a minute that Greece would want to prevent U.K. citizens keeping their boat there. Financially it would make no sense to force British boats out

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I think it is unlikely but if it did happen I do not think for a minute that Greece would want to prevent U.K. citizens keeping their boat there. Financially it would make no sense to force British boats out

Absolutely, they wouldn't actively force British boats out - they are a revenue stream after all, and more so when they are no longer covered by european directives on freedom of movement.

Legally though, surely if the UK leaves the UE and Greece stays in then the Brit boats become non-EU boats and would be treated as such.

That means freedom of movement of goods and people within the EU (for movement of people from non-shengen countries is would not be much different to today) would no longer apply. I don't see a 3-tier system of EU boats, British boats, and non-EU boats happening where the British boats are afforded any benefits over and above other non-EU boats.

I would expect that this also then holds true for all EU states - British boats with British citizens would be treated no differently to US boats with US citizens IMHO - that means with all the duty and movement restrictions that are applied to all non-EU boats visiting the EU.

Apart from the VAT issue, this is why owners of boats in Croatia are really looking forward to 01.07.2013 because when Croatia joins the EU it will mean the end to the 18 month rule, some of the charges levied on EU boats will no longer be legal and life should get simpler and cheaper - at least there should be a more level playing field with local registered boats.

One massive plus is that if the UK breaks completely with the EU then UK citizens should be able to keep boats in the EU free of UK or EU VAT, just like they do in Croatia at the moment.

 

[macd]

Plenty of Norwegian and Swiss boats managing to stay in the Med.

Both Norway and Switzerland are Schengen countries, unlike the UK. Their citizens are legally entitled to enter and reside in other Schengen countries.

Since no country has left the EU, there's no way of knowing what regulations/structures might apply in the highly unlikely event of the UK leaving. It's inconceivable that there wouldn't be interim measures, probably quite lengthy, as opposed to many thousands of established, law-abiding people both in the UK and rest of the EU suddenly becoming 'illegals'.

 

[BrianH]

Both Norway and Switzerland are Schengen countries, unlike the UK. Their citizens are legally entitled to enter and reside in other Schengen countries.

In pedant mode but the Schengen Agreement has nothing to do with residence, which is subject to non-EU countries own internal laws and regulations irregardless of having signed the Accord, which is the abolition of internal border controls and a common visa policy for internal transport.

True that Switzerland, acting as a quasi-EU member, has certain work (and consequently residence) allowances for EU and ex-EFTA members but it is strictly controlled.

 

[macd]

Barnac1e: you're right, of course. Schengen is about border controls and freedom of movement, although that's scarcely unrelated to the issues under discussion. My post which you quote from was in response to tri39's observation of "Plenty of Norwegian and Swiss boats managing to stay in the Med" as though this were an oversight on the part of the authorities that canny Vikings and Alpine gnomes had somehow slipped through.

For for the basis for this 'phenomenon' one needs look no further than the UK Border Agency's own website: "As an EEA or Swiss national, you have the right to live and work in the UK." It adds that "Although Iceland, Lichtenstein and Norway are not members of the EU, [as EEA members] their citizens have the same rights as EU citizens to enter, live and work in the UK."
(See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/)

Greece (and every other EU country) has precisely the same practice. (I'd have posted the comparable Greek reference if I could have found it but, oddly, it seems to be in Greek.)

In other words, tri39's point...er, has no point. Which was my point.

 

[BrianH]

Barnac1e: you're right, of course. Schengen is about border controls and freedom of movement, although that's scarcely unrelated to the issues under discussion. My post which you quote from was in response to tri39's observation of "Plenty of Norwegian and Swiss boats managing to stay in the Med" as though this were an oversight on the part of the authorities that canny Vikings and Alpine gnomes had somehow slipped through.
For for the basis for this 'phenomenon' one needs look no further than the UK Border Agency's own website: "As an EEA or Swiss national, you have the right to live and work in the UK." It adds that "Although Iceland, Lichtenstein and Norway are not members of the EU, [as EEA members] their citizens have the same rights as EU citizens to enter, live and work in the UK."
(See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/)
Greece (and every other EU country) has precisely the same practice. (I'd have posted the comparable Greek reference if I could have found it but, oddly, it seems to be in Greek.)

In other words, tri39's point...er, has no point. Which was my point.

Point taken

The UK's "right to live and work in the UK" for Swiss citizens is a reciprocal agreement as EFTA members -Switzerland voted by referendum not to proceed with continuing with the phaseover into EEA membership, fearing it would lead to full EU accession behind their backs. They do, however, respect EFTA membership agreements for special conditions for residence and work applications and have opened up the same conditions to many of the original EU members. Not a popular move amongst the populace, I may add. However, tradewise, Switzerland lives or dies by accepting much of the EU's diktats on freedom of movement, work and residence.