Great Debate - The Thames, cruisers and narrowboats

[StewartC]

Quite a contentious one this, especially for those based on the Royal river...

Is the Thames big enough for cruisers and narrowboats?

Anyone who's been anywhere near the Thames recently will have noticed how many more narrowboats are on the water. It seems they even make up the majority of traffic on weekdays. But is it right that so many are flooding on to the river when there's such an extensive canal network available that is inaccessible to cruisers?

As always, vote below and let's hear your thoughts.

Results will be printed in January's MBM.

 

[boatone]

I'm just sitting here waiting for someone to ask why this isn't on the Thames forum! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Kilter]

Why isn't this on the Thames Forum? I mean if you're going to have a forum might as well use it, eh?

 

[Kilter]

Oops! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BrendanS]

I was going to post that /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, but then couldn't be bothered as still trying to work out why Stewart always posts polls that you can't view until so far in the future no one is posting to the thread anymore, so you won't remember to go back and view it.

People can't be influenced by voting as they can't see results until they've voted

 

[JKay]

There are too many coffins full stop /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

cheers Joe

 

[hlb]

Yep. F off to the thames forum and leave us in piece.

Course you could always send the narrow boats down to us in Plymouth. We're not so mamby pamby, cant see them lasting long. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Did'nt bother voting, hardly seems fair to have Apartheid on the thames. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[jcmmarine]

With the desertions through the EA licence and other costs they need all the boats they can get, Cruisers and Narrowboats.

I berthed on the Thames from 1995, Lincence fee £98, mooring £850, and the Thames was crowded. I left in 2004, Licence fee £385, Mooring £2830, No problems finding a mooring anywhere.

 

[SoulFireMage]

The only bone of contention I ever had with narrowboats (ie the 50-70 footers!) was the mooring up thing. Up by Oxford is a low bridge, and moorings further on. But many would insist on taking spaces below this where the cruisers can get to, leaving the ones the cruisers can't reach free. Also a distinct lack of rafting up was quite frequent. This was last year. In that area in particular, if the majority reversed both habits there would never be much issue as long as cruisers also rafted when practical.

 

[chuckaduck]

sorry but pointless poll if we cant see results me I am bored already

and while your at it why not include raggies robos and pleasure cruisers oh and forgot working vessels rnli and pla etc

Of course there is enough room the only contention is how some use that room

 

[Steve Clayton]

Hi Stewart,

I think you are going to get a biased response to your poll on this forum unless the playing field is levelled by asking the same (or similar) on a narrowboat forum.

Asking peeps for their personal experiences might provide you with more relevant information. To keep the impetus going for your analysis maybe a questionaire on appropriate stands (and a prize draw) at LIBS might help.

Our experience on the Thames suggests that narrowboaters can be quite selfish eg: moored up for days at a time at Tesco's in Reading and occupying all the available space; just above Days Lock where there are some wonderful moorings - all occupied by n'boaters and none of them rafted to leave space for others.

Maybe as n'boats arrive on the Thames an etiquette leaflet would help (eg lock etiquette is different to that on canals, rafting up wherever possible, etc)

All IMHO of course.

www.seraph-sailing.com

 

[DAKA]

If you think they dont mix well there; you should ask around the Trent.

Hair pin bends
30 knot cruisers/Flybridges (only part has any enforced speed restriction)
and Tin boats with doors open at the bow and Plants/shrubs on the roof ready to be washed off. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Black Sheep]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are going to get a biased response to your poll on this forum unless the playing field is levelled by asking the same (or similar) on a narrowboat forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then how do you interpret the results? I'll bet you'll find a lot of narrowboaters would agree that the Thames isn't big enough for cruisers as well... but they'd have a very different idea of which boats to ban...

Seriously, I don't see any purpose to this "poll" except to stir up divisiveness between two groups of river users. I've got a pretty low opinion of the press, but to see a "news editor" deliberately provoking prejudice like this is depressing.

 

[rickp]

Have they cleared that sunken cruiser at Farndon yet? Last I heard he didn't have insurance and no money - so the wreck was slowly rolling over and spilling its contents into the river.

Rick

 

[StewartC]

RiverRat,

If you are a non-tidal Thames boater, you'll be aware of the issues. Not much mooring space in popular spots, visiting narrowboats not being charged as much as resident cruisers etc...

You'll also be aware of the level of feeling of some Thames cruiser owners towards narrowboats. Our job is to listen to these concerns and ask the appropriate questions.

If you were to read the entire debate in November's MBM, you'd soon discover that MBM has no narrowboat prejudice. The above is only a small part of the wider debate.

Of course the Thames is big enough for both communities. All we ask is that the EA does a better job of integrating the two.

Stewart

 

[hlb]

Thats a bit of a climb down. If thats what you meant, why did you not say it in the first place.

Journalist. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[StewartC]

hlb, the question above is just that... a question. It was never meant to be a statement of policy. I'm sorry if you got that impression. By asking it, I am not saying MBM has a problem with narrowboats. What it's doing is raising an issue, one that is familiar to many Thames boaters.

MBM's position, as outlined in my above post, is made perfectly clear in the pages of the magazine.

 

[hlb]

Yes, maybe. But every one here does not buy MBM.

It's not just me that got the wrong end of stick. And not just me that wont fill the poll in. Cos one cannot see the results and two it looks inflamatary?.

 

[Sammo]

Haydn, don`t think you’re safe, they’ve been sighted heading south.

Today Pangbourne, tomorrow Lymington Town Quay.


……….

 

[Black Sheep]

[ QUOTE ]
the question above is just that... a question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but it doesn't look like "just a question". When you preface the question with "It seems they even make up the majority of traffic on weekdays. But is it right that so many are flooding on to the river when there's such an extensive canal network available that is inaccessible to cruisers?" that makes it a loaded question.

Phrases such as "so many are flooding on to the river" are emotive. The info that someone posted in the Thames Forum suggested a 66% rise in narrowboats over 5 years. Hardly a flood - that's a tad over 10% a year.

Why is it relevant that narrowboats can use the canals? You could as easily argue that seaworthy boats shouldn't use the non-tidal Thames as they've got the Estuary and coasts to play with, that's inaccessible to narrowboats.

I can accept that you want to "listen to these concerns and ask the appropriate questions". I can think of lots of appropriate questions that reflect the concerns you've expressed. Such as:
* Do you think the balance between visitors and resident charging is appropriate?
* Do you think charges should be based on length?
* Do you think there should be firmer policing of short-term and overnight moorings?

Instead we get "Is the Thames big enough for cruisers and narrowboats?" which is impossible to interpret - what does it mean if people say yes or no? Especially as you've already given us the answer: "Of course the Thames is big enough for both communities.".

I do agree with your last point about integrating the communities. I see too much demonising of mobos/raggies/PWCs/racers/rowboats/etc on these forums, and I was disappointed to see a news editor apparently joining in.

Edit : am I now guilty of demonising news editors? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif