Great Debate - The Thames, cruisers and narrowboats

Do you want LS's style of artistic photos to continue to adorn your screens

  • Yes please!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes, but not too often

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes, but in an xxx restricted forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No thank you

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No thank you, I've got a better source

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't care either way

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
[ QUOTE ]
The info that someone posted in the Thames Forum suggested a 66% rise in narrowboats over 5 years. Hardly a flood - that's a tad over 10% a year.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are referring to the EA Press Release that I lnked to in an earlier thread on the Thames forum?
Franky, it is full of spin and if you read it carefully you will see that 66% is the increase in the number of gold licences issued between 2000-2004 which takes no account of visitors licences. Also, they have recently changed the rules about visitors licences which now alllows purchase of several visitors licences a year wheras it was previously restricted to a certain number of days in total.

I have no faith whatsoever in the EA statistics. They have endeavoured to justify the real cost of the 12% rise in licence fees by quoting the increase relevant to boat dimensions which are a joke and based primarily, I suspect, on comparison with narrowboat sizes. The Thames charges on the basis of length x breadth whereas BW charge on length only.

The fact is that a 36 foot narrowboat based on BW canals can obtain a gold licence for 12 months for just £75 or so on top of their BW licence. This gives them exactly the same rights of access as I am required to pay £400 for. They will inevitaby make use of this access during the summer months (wouldnt you?)and there is absolutely no doubt that this, together with increasing numbers entering the river on visitors licences has seen a dramatic and inescapable increase in their numbers in the last two or three years.

I am not anti narrowboats pe se, and I think my side of the Great Debate article in this months MBM makes this clear. I am however mighty fed up with being expected to pay more and more while the EA seems intent on distributing largesse it cannot afford to boats that are not river based and that, due to their length and ignorance of river etiquette, ARE causing problems which need to be addressed.
 
Haydn,

I take your point on the poll results. After reading all the feedback here, I have to concede that not letting people see the results until they appear in the magazine probably isn't the best way of going about it. I will change this for the future.

However, I'm still struggling to see how the poll is inflammatory. It's asking a question many Thames cruiser owners are also asking. If you think narrowboats should be welcomed on to the Thames, vote yes. If not, vote no.

RiverRat,

Firstly let me say how happy I was to see you take the quotation marks off news editor.

You make some excellent points. Yes, the language is emotive. But by its very nature, the Great Debate is emotive. Its purpose is to eliven discussion and debate on any particular topic.

In the context of 12% year-on-year licence fee increases, decreasing cruiser numbers on the Thames, and across the board budget cuts from DEFRA, many cruiser owners feel they are being neglected from those on high, while the powers that be pander to narrowboaters.

So we have a situation where cruisers are leaving the river, while narrowboat numbers are only increasing. This is very much akin to a 'flood' in many boaters' eyes.

The question 'Is the Thames big enough..." is just the title. I have clearly made the mistake of assuming that most people have read MBM and the entire Great Debate page. Journalistic hubris, I suppose.

And I've only given MBM's answer, which doesn't necessarily make it the right one. If people disagree, I want to hear why. The point was to hear your thoughts.

In hindsight, I could have structured the question differently, and I appreciate your feedback.

But rest assured, I, nor MBM, has anything against narrowboats or narrowboaters - our first editor is now one!

Just to let you know... this month I will mostly be vilifying DEFRA. If anyone has any objections, let me know.
 
This sounds like a good idea but I just checked it out on the BWB site and for my boat 31'x10'6'' its £426 instead of £338 for the Thames license, but you can do it and even get a refund on the Thames license apparently.
 
"If you think narrowboats should be welcomed on to the Thames, vote yes. If not, vote no."

Well, no, I dont think narrow boats should be welcome on the thames. But then I dont like posher boats than mine on the sea. Dont like scruffier boats either and I'm not that carried away with raggies. Rowing boats can be a pest and I really get pissed off when a faster boat passes me. I dont even like folk that own P35's. There either polishing fanatics or lazy gits.

Ok we've just sold the barge, which was Deborahs boat, that regularly sailed the Thames. Suppose the barge was just a fat narrow boat, so should be excluded as well.

My biggest gripe is all them enormous iron thingies, wizzing up and down the channel. Now there just bloody dangerous and should be banned. Even when parked up, there just a bloody nuicence, they spoil the view and just think how many marinas could be built if we got shut of the twats!
 
It's them 'orrible plastic things that should be banned. Especially the washing up bowls with food mixers on the back.

I used to have a narrow boat, but have got a plastic boat now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Is it to contentious to suggest that the majority of Thames "Gin Places" wether 4 metres or 15,are only actually out on the river for weekend days out and the odd two weeks proper holiday once a year while some have a suspicion that in the narrow boat community a fair and rising proportion are almost permanent floating residences.Quite how you would charge virtual permanent houseboats vs occasional sleep aboads beats me.
 
Basically I think this all went wrong when the EA moved to charging by LxB, instead of just length, to make more money.
It's length that dictates how much river bank you take up.
Likewise mooring charges. In Windsor for example (last time I was there) it is the same price for 70 foot as 17 foot alongside length.
 
Haydn's living with an ex Narrowboat owner /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif carefull ! But when I visited the Thames it was on a non controversial Dutch Barge. i.e its short.

The main problem is that the EA do not provide enough moorings, & Narrowboat owners just don't get rafting up. Its just that on the Canals you have your own bank space, so it just doesn't happen (sometimes poorly policed so those going for cheap boating try to stay there for weeks - which is totally wrong) Narrowboaters just don't understand about rafting, it came as quite a shock to me.

Think a Thames welcome leaflet with a strongly worded, "you will have to raft up" & "don't be a selfish moorer" would help. Even a discription of when rafting up is expected.
 
Coming up through Kingston Saturday evening, about 19:00, spotted a narrowboat heading down river with no nav lights, not even the tunnel light that is a BSS requirment for the BW canals and rivers.

I felt that this was rather symptomatic of the attitude of some nb owners, but let us not tar them all with the same brush. I have also seen them rafted up at Port Hampton and also Windsor. Its education and ensuring that they pay a fair whack, preferably by the rest of us paying less.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Coming up through Kingston Saturday evening, about 19:00, spotted a narrowboat heading down river with no nav lights, not even the tunnel light that is a BSS requirment for the BW canals and rivers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Andrew, you're not quite right on this occasion. However, I believe it is a bylaw requirement on some inland navigations in times of darkness, and low visibility as well as navigating tunnels. I advise owners to check with their local navigation authority.

NOTE: The BSS requirements can be read at www.boatsafetyscheme.com
Regards
Rob
 
So. without reading your boat safety drivle. It's quite ok to sail around on your stretch without lights. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

No longer a decision of turning lights on because it's dark. More a matter of wading through umpteen leaflets and panftets as to whether it's dark or not.

Note.

I dont give a f** about BSS requirements. I require BSS to give a F*** about mine. Once you have the canals and rivers safe. To my standards. not yours. at a fair price. then I may concider visiting them. Having had one boat on the sea and one on a canal, it looks a bit of a farse.

Iff it's god enough for Volvo and EEC regs. It's good enough for you. You canot counter demand EEC law. Though you try to. Sold. Rivery, canal type boat, now wholy on sea. Piss off!!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Sorry Andrew, you're not quite right on this occasion. However, I believe it is a bylaw requirement on some inland navigations in times of darkness, and low visibility as well as navigating tunnels. I advise owners to check with their local navigation authority.

NOTE: The BSS requirements can be read at www.boatsafetyscheme.com
Regards
Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Failed BSS on the K&A a few years ago due to "not having a tunnel light". This was on a boat with full nav lights fitted. Examiner was not interested in them. Failure was reversed when a large plugin spotlight was displayed.

I have toi say that it seems a curious anomaly. As narroboat hirers years ago we were always told that "no night cruising" was die to lack of nav lights. On arrival at a yard one time, toting a set of emergency battery powered nav lights and asking about night crusing the staff replied "you have lights, no problem"

Mid stream in Kingston at night in a dark coloured boat showing no lights at all strikes me as being the action of a damfool idiot. Regs being for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men covers this one I feel...
 
The Thames is dying

Strange the row about an increasing number of NBs when the overall figure is plummeting.
Get on the river and enjoy it! It doesn't matter what you float on, so long as it's safe.
 
Re: The Thames is dying

...except with the locks and free anchorages being blocked up with floating tin tubs it can be little hard to enjoy all of the time /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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