Got a cruising chute vs spinny question

[cliffdale]

The boat is a 36' dufour.

Mostly sail single handed and likely to be doing 100m+ voyages.

I have the pole and running rigging for a spinnaker so no additional cost choosing which sail.

I have searched the forums for opinions but without much success.

What is worrying me if the spinnaker will be too much for a single person to handle. The aim is to increase down wind performance in fairly light winds.

Cruising chute seems much easier to handle but does not have the down wind performance of the spinnaker.

If there are any single handed sailers, what do you do?

Cliff

 

[rib]

snuffer and gybe preventer is what i use

 

[Pinnacle]

What about a cruising chute? You can fly it in the conventional manner from a tack line secured to the bow ( or a short gennaker style pole ) or you can use your spinny pole to bring the tack right back so deeper wind angles are possible. See below for an example of the latter...

 

[mcframe]

Parasail or parasailor ?

Snuffer is great, but might need, err, two hands.

I can launch & recover my chute single handed (27', fractional), but haven't tried it with the parasail - yet.

 

[rib]

yep i.ve got two hands for the snuffer

 

[cliffdale]

Rib

Are you any where near Falmouth?

Fancy a sail to show me the ropes?

Cliff

 

[Viking]

good planning when dropping!

I use a C/C when single-handed, Not having the pole to handle is one thing less to go wrong. Dropping the sail is the trickly part. Its important to get your 'drop' lines so that you can handle them from the same side, adjoining jammers, ie I have the head-halyard and 'tack/downhaul' line in one hand. I then have the other hand free to recover the clew and sail. I have a tiller so that I control the steering between my legs. All sail/line connects are spring/snapshackles and svivaled type, so, one, there take only one hand to release and two, any twists in sail or lines will self correct. When the sail safely down the companionway. Only then think about raising or unfoiling the foresail. Once course is set. Start tidying up!

 

[rib]

not at the moment my friend,im cruising the med in barcelona on my own,was there up till april.do you have any self steering gear ?

 

[awol]

I have both cruising chute and spinnaker and use them single-handed depending on the wind angle. A trustworthy self steering device is my 1st need + the ease of release of halyard, guy or tack line. Then it is just a matter of taking it methodically and easy, avoiding the panic of lee shores or other vessels and setting (and sticking to) a max wind speed for flying the things. I have tried a snuffer but much prefer without.
Good luck!

 

[Neil_Y]

Just take it slowly, I had no problems flying a big kite on a 40' boat. Plan it out and take it one step at a time.

 

[BuzzFan]

If...

If you have reliable self-steering, a snuffer & enough sea space to follow the course set by wind, then when conditions permit, why not?

Best to think how you'll cope alone when things go wrong - provided you've the space to adjust your heading to cope with any unpredictable wind shifts, then the worst that "should" happen would be wind strengthening, in which case blanket the kite behind the main & then snuff it.

What else can go wrong? forestay wrap on a cocked up hoist ? not that likely with a snuffer.

lost sheet on a sudden gust? snuff it!

tricky gybe coming up? snuff it, gybe, reset.

wind to strong to snuff? head upwind & then snuff it perhaps? risk's tearing the kite but should work. I certainly wouldn't risk it sailing in any restricted channel.

Ive never flown a kite alone as mainly race on multihand yachts, but could be tempted to try when the wind seemed stable. .

The boat is a 36' dufour.

Mostly sail single handed and likely to be doing 100m+ voyages.

I have the pole and running rigging for a spinnaker so no additional cost choosing which sail.

I have searched the forums for opinions but without much success.

What is worrying me if the spinnaker will be too much for a single person to handle. The aim is to increase down wind performance in fairly light winds.

Cruising chute seems much easier to handle but does not have the down wind performance of the spinnaker.

If there are any single handed sailers, what do you do?

Cliff

 

[Hostage]

CruisingChute or Spinnaker

I carry two cruising chutes of different sizes and I'm mostly singlehanded.

I also often use a whisker pole.

As has been mentioned you can fly a CC as a spinnaker ( funny shape ) using the pole and the up side is that you can reverse the process, remove the pole and revert to sailing with a CC again. When things are to your liking drop it behind the main. Of course you have to add another line co-located with the tackline to act as guy while flying as a spinnaker but everyone has their own arrangement.

I must say that the CC is enough for me. Not too much work and I feel more in control.

 

[Seajet]

I have a chute and a spi', the latter doesn't get a look in these days, I'm normally alone or with inexperienced crew.

I have flown a spi alone on larger boats I've had, and lots of dinghies*; but the genneker / chute gets it every time for less worry, still giving relatively high speed.

I did specify a tri-radial cut so it can be used to good effect on a close reach, and I do usually use the pole, keeps everything more stable; as others have said, forward planning - and not sticking your neck out, especially alone with a conventional spi' - is the key.

* Thought as I typed, how about trying to get some dinghy experience, ideally with both spi's & asymmetrics ? Once I sailed a modern International 14, I was completely sold on the latter for user friendliness.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

As you have all the equipment for a spinnaker then I would opt for the spinnaker. A new spinnaker can be cut for cruising such that it lessens the rolling affect. I am not sure how its cut different but I think the width across the top half is narrowed, or cut inward slightly.

I fly a spinnaker single handed on a 41' yacht, up to about a Force 4 but with a snuffer attached. Without the snuffer it becomes a handful for me. I use a self steering vane for open waters and an auto helm for restricted waters. The auto helm is probably used the most by far.

Tips
1. Make sure you pole up and down lines are accessible at the helm positions. Good pole control means a stable spinnaker.
2. I only use sheets now, not guys and sheets. I don't change the lead angle of the sheet when used as a guy and reaching. If the wind swings forward, I drop the kite and unfurl my headsail.
3. Have light weight sheets for light winds, they make a big difference to set the sail.
4. Make sure the sheets are long enough to drop without the snuffer! For example I drop on a wide broad reach sitting on the coach roof at the beam: -
- Main all the way out
- Sheet off until flapping
- Then guy way out and keep slack
- Sheet in tight to bring clew just under boom
- Make off sheet
- Go to mast with guy in hand. Stand on guy.
- Take off two turns on spinnaker halyard winch
- Grab sheet under boom while keeping tension on halyard
- Pull sail towards me and haul tight such that spinnaker leech becomes taught
- Ease out on halyard while hauling down on leech and bunching spinnaker.
- Watch the guy and keep it taught to prevent it going under the bow. This is the big disadvantage of only using sheets.
- As soon as you can dump the last two turns of halyard on winch and haul in fast. Keep an eye on the tack and get ready to bunch up the guy to stop the yacht sailing over it.

Note when hauling down the sheet has remained locked off. The above is obviously for my yacht (which is a centre cockpit with all halyards at the mast). The main difference with an aft cockpit and cockpit controlled halyards is that you need a bit of slack in the sheet to be able to stand in the companion way hatch with a sheet in one hand while lowering the halyard through the clutch. In this case I still keep two turns on the winch and open the clutch fully. There comes a time when you need to just dump the last two turns and haul fast on the spinnaker, stuffing it down the hatch.

Although I like my snuffer, all my spinnaker hassles have been associated with the snuffer, usually the lines jamming.

Best of luck.

 

[flaming]

It's well known that i hate snuffers, so perhaps take this with a pinch of salt... But....

What else can go wrong? forestay wrap on a cocked up hoist ? not that likely with a snuffer.

Disagree, far more likely with a snuffer where the jib is often rolled away first than with a conventional hoist where the jib is still up - basically impossible to get a forestay wrap then!

lost sheet on a sudden gust? snuff it!

So rare as to be dismissed. Or, simply tie your sheets on better!

tricky gybe coming up? snuff it, gybe, reset.

I'll give you that one. Though snafus are still more than possible - especially if you are in the habit of sailing with only one sheet attached and need to attach a new one when it's snuffed. Sheet through the middle of the snuffing lines is a favourite.

wind to strong to snuff? head upwind & then snuff it perhaps? risk's tearing the kite but should work. I certainly wouldn't risk it sailing in any restricted channel.

That is easily the worst idea I've ever heard connected to snuffers. The wind is "too strong to snuff" so you want to turn upwind INCREASING the apprent wind? Madness! Heading upwind with a flogging kite will damage things, the kite (probably), the rig (possibly) and your crew's confidence in you (definitely).

If you get in trouble head onto a broad reach AND STAY THERE! Ease the tack and sheet the shett on hard until you get the kite into the lee of the main, then drop / snuf.

 

[Conachair]

If there are any single handed sailers, what do you do?

Cliff

Now this is a bit embarrassing as i don't even know what the big bit a nylon is Pretty sure it's a spinakker. Not knowing any better I tied the tack off the to bow and poled out the clew. Worked well dead downwind goosewinged with main out the other side. Wouldn't have even attempted it solo without a snuffer.

 

[Stemar]

This was discussed in one of the yottie comics a few years ago and the off-the-wall answer was a feathering prop.

The reasoning was that the cost is likely to be similar and you get the benefit all the time, not just on the rare occasions when the wind isn't on the nose. a 1/2-1kt advantage all the time is likely to benefit you more on passage than a bigger advantage that you only get during the day when the wind is in the right direction and not too strong.

I know the argument isn't quite that simple, but if you haven't got one already, it's worth thinking about.

 

[awol]

This was discussed in one of the yottie comics a few years ago and the off-the-wall answer was a feathering prop.

The reasoning was that the cost is likely to be similar and you get the benefit all the time, not just on the rare occasions when the wind isn't on the nose. a 1/2-1kt advantage all the time is likely to benefit you more on passage than a bigger advantage that you only get during the day when the wind is in the right direction and not too strong.

I know the argument isn't quite that simple, but if you haven't got one already, it's worth thinking about.

Are you sure it's not a bow thruster you want to add to the spinnaker v. cruising chute debate? Much more relevant than folding props 'cos it can be run to avoid broaching!

 

[TQA]

I have flown both a assy and a conventional spi single handed.

IMHO a reliable autopilot is essential and a snuffer almost as essential. Get used to the snuffer in light winds and make sure it does not twist as you hoist it.

I believe that you can get a variety of spi that is more stable so less sensitive to trim, one of those would be sensible.

But I have always just flown what my boat came with.

Currently on 44 ft sloop and a big assy which I fly on a pole.

 

[Blueboatman]

Bought a cruising chute last year and surprised/delighted how much I have used it.
A genuine downwind asset in light airs, diff between say 3.8 and 6plus kn easily, hour after hour and can be sailed round onto a reach, which is really quick too, let us not forget.
I have 2 centre line ubolts/pelican clips 600mm apart to keep the snuffer control line from twisting or wrapping around the radar etc. And a four part tackle/jammer/snapshackle ready rigged thru a stemhead block for the chutes tackline.
..And tend to leave the sheets rigged all summer. And have zigzag line from the lifelines down to the toerail up ford, so nothing can slide over the side.
The devil is in the detail
Not brave enough to use the spinnaker yet ( it is a biggun) but I have a second lighter pole that I use to wing out the genoa occasionally, useful as you can reef the genoa in situ.