Going left takes priority

[RupertW]

Had an unusual spat with an Italian boat last Wednesday - unusual for me because I tend not to get into any spats on the water.

Basically I'm sunbathing on the side deck, wife on watch, motor on and Autohelm on. We're a couple of miles off the Croatian coast with no obstacles for miles and tracking roughly parallel to the coast. Before snoozing off I notice a boat well behind us and to starboard doing what looks like the same course as us, also under motor.

About 15 mins later I'm woken up for advice to see the same boat within two or three boat lengths, still on our starboard side, still roughly parallel but clearly converging to perhaps hit us amidships in another couple of hundred metres. The Italian is shouting, "Get out of the way". I suggest we maintain course and speed, as any other action might conflict with whatever his next action is.

He shouts "Rules of the road, we are going left, going left, you must move", I reply that he is overtaking so needs to keep clear but would probalbly have moved out of the way anyway, but genuinely don't think I can safely speed up, slow down turn to starboard without immediately hitting him so wait to see what he does next, which is to turn hard to port to just, just get round my stern while shouting at me for doing the wrong thing.

Nobody was hurt, nothing damaged but I wonder what I should have done given the tiny distances left, and the options available?

 

[NealB]

I must admit that, like you, I don't instantly recall the "Priority to vessels going left" rule.

 

[Highndry]

You were the stand on vessel, he was overtaking. You took the correct course of action. I'm assuming here that SWMBO hadn't thrown in a course change to confuse the issue?

 

[oldharry]

Never driven in Italy? They have priority whatever they are doing..... didnt know it extends to the water as well though. Just another excuse for a good shout and waving of arms really.

 

[Highndry]

The other thing you could have done, which I've seen in several spy movies (particularly James Bond films) would be to launch some oil drums over the stern. Empty ones, so they float nice and high, but still explode when they're hit by the pursuing Italian. Apparently.

 

[stuarta]

You were entirely correct as the vessel being overtaken. The only "caveat" to that comes under Rule 17b:

"When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."

It is difficult to determine in your case what you could have done if he had misjudged cutting under your stern - slowing down would have made things worse so perhaps a burst of speed might have worked, assuming you still had a few RPM in the bag to use. Turning away as soon as he altered probably wouldn't help much as it could swing your stern towards him.

Experience in the Bay of Naples with Italians would suggest that it is every man (& woman) for themselves (like their driving). He could have saved himself (& you) a lot of aggro by just pointing under your stern in the first place - do you think it was GPS assisted? IE, he was determined to follow his waypoints rather than look out of the window?

 

[RupertW]

Just another excuse for a good shout and waving of arms really.

Oh good, we did plenty of that, I'm must be getting the hang of this international communication

 

[aquaplane]

Were you not flying the correct flag for "keep well clear of me I'm stopping some rays"?

 

[fireball]

Nobody was hurt, nothing damaged but I wonder what I should have done given the tiny distances left, and the options available?

Perhaps you should've put fenders out on your starboard side and asked him if he was bringing the beer or wine onboard ...

 

[prv]

It sounds like you thought it was an overtaking situation, whereas he thought it was a crossing one. If it were crossing, then coming from your starboard side he would indeed be the stand-on vessel.

From your description it sounds like your interpretation was the correct one (he was never "past and clear"), but his is presumably where the "going left!" idea came from.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

Obvious misunderstanding.
He was a commander in the Turin Navy and as such the Rules of the Road apply when his is playing at being Captain.
Did he have a white shirt, open to the waist?

Did you recognise him?

 

[RupertW]

You were entirely correct as the vessel being overtaken. The only "caveat" to that comes under Rule 17b:

"When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."

It is difficult to determine in your case what you could have done if he had misjudged cutting under your stern - slowing down would have made things worse so perhaps a burst of speed might have worked, assuming you still had a few RPM in the bag to use. Turning away as soon as he altered probably wouldn't help much as it could swing your stern towards him.

Experience in the Bay of Naples with Italians would suggest that it is every man (& woman) for themselves (like their driving). He could have saved himself (& you) a lot of aggro by just pointing under your stern in the first place - do you think it was GPS assisted? IE, he was determined to follow his waypoints rather than look out of the window?

I did think about what could do as approached and I wish I'd had a few more yards. I thought he was far more likely to speed up at the last minute so he could sweep across my bows, but I'm glad I didnt slow down to allow that as his sweeping turn around my stern was happened very suddenly. Should really have resolved this a few minutes earlier when it must have looked obvious for a collision.

Then I would have slowed down with plenty of room for him to overtake and pass.

I'm sure both of us were on Autohelm but both of us went to manual steering prior to general shouting and waving. Without Autohelm I wonder whether either of us would have reached that close point, probably unconsiusly avoiding a convergence by slightly more erratic human steering.

Everyone around there is conscious of what happened about a mile north last year when this old Italian couple were sailing along in light winds and hit at 20 or 30 knots by a shouting, gesturing motor boat owner who was plowing along under Autohelm, but claimed his wheel was jammed so he couldn't avoid them.

 

[RichardS]

Every year we seem to have "a shouting experience" with Italians in Croatia. (the Itailians shouting, not me). We've never had a problem with any other nationality.

I think you will find that this is a fairly universal experience amongst Adriatic sailors - just read a few sailing blogs and a common theme will emerge!

The I last time I wrote about my experience on here I was too rude about our Italian cousins (on the forum but not in real life - I smiled sweetly at the time!) and the thread was pulled after a complaint so that's the end of this one.................

Richard

 

[RichardS]

Everyone around there is conscious of what happened about a mile north last year when this old Italian couple were sailing along in light winds and hit at 20 or 30 knots by a shouting, gesturing motor boat owner who was plowing along under Autohelm, but claimed his wheel was jammed so he couldn't avoid them.

That was indeed a tragedy - and a Croatian powerboat too. From memory the speed limit leading into Sibenik is 5 knots so it was a stuck throttle and a jammed wheel. Who says lightning doesn't strike twice.

Richard

 

[RupertW]

That was indeed a tragedy - and a Croatian powerboat too. From memory the speed limit leading into Sibenik is 5 knots so it was a stuck throttle and a jammed wheel. Who says lightning doesn't strike twice.

Richard

It was just outside the entrance to Kremik so not sure if a speed limit applies but it's a narrow and busy bit of water in the Summer. You're right though about the extreme bad luck of the guy, particularly as he got control back straight afterwards but motored a short way off to anchor instead of helping. The yacht still on the hard on Saturday with its mast in 3 pieces and the cockpit smashed.

 

[mjcoon]

Never driven in Italy? They have priority whatever they are doing..... didnt know it extends to the water as well though. Just another excuse for a good shout and waving of arms really.

I've been warned, similarly, that in Turkish waters the primary rule is that Turks have right of way...

Mike.

 

[RichardS]

It was just outside the entrance to Kremik so not sure if a speed limit applies but it's a narrow and busy bit of water in the Summer. You're right though about the extreme bad luck of the guy, particularly as he got control back straight afterwards but motored a short way off to anchor instead of helping. The yacht still on the hard on Saturday with its mast in 3 pieces and the cockpit smashed.

Ah, my mistake Rupert. I thought it was in the Sibenik channel not down by Kremik.

The last time I was in the channel heading toward Sibenik a motorboat went past in the other direction doing well over the speed limit. Suddenly around the corner came the police launch and we watched as it pulled him over. They obviously keep a fairly close eye on things .... just in case anyone is tempted!

Richard

 

[stuarta]

May not have been the case in this situation but I've heard of collisions being "assisted" by the use of conventient Lat/Longs - it may be easier with some systems to enter 35 00.00N than 34 59.00N for example. Obviously being there at the same time is a bit of a coincidence but for the sake of a mile it might be worth avoiding the risk, especially off busy ports.

Of course, nothing beats looking out of the window but he may have been distracted adjusting his white speedos at the time.

 

[macd]

I'm afraid, Rupert, that the fault was entirely yours since the other vessel was showing the correct day shape for a "vessel constrained by its competence", which as you observed is rectangle of red, white and green.

By way of a PS, may I exclude Roberto of this parish from such a crude stereotype?

 

[little_roundtop]

I'm afraid, Rupert, that the fault was entirely yours since the other vessel was showing the correct day shape for a "vessel constrained by its competence", which as you observed is rectangle of red, white and green.