Getting experince for YM Offshore: charter or milebuilding course?

Gedimin

Gedimin

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In 2018 I aim to get RYA Yachtmaster Offshore. Without any specific reason, I just want to reach this level. By now I have about 2500nm of cruising experience + loads of local club racing + various additional courses passed. RYA Coastal Skipper. Also have several qualifying passages, but all 60nm+ overnight passages were done with someone more experienced on board (like instructor), even though formally I was skippering it. Plus many nights underway as a crew.

Now, to get to YM Offshore I need to brush up some skills and also skipper some more 60nm+ passages. I don't have my own boat for practical reasons - maintenance is too costly, and I am not ready to settle with 1 boat and 1 primary cruising area. I know there are many advantages of having a boat, but this topic is not about it - just not ready yet.

In this situation I have major choice in a way how I spend my weeks off and money next year:

Option 1. Join one of milebuilding courses for 2 weeks.

Pros:
- learn from more experienced person
Cons:
- no real autonomy / always have help

Option 2. Charter a yacht with friends and be the only skipper on board

Pros:
- full responsibility and learning from own mistakes
Cons:
- no external advice
- hard to find friends who are capable of standing a night watch and willing to do so on their holidays
- friends usually prefer summer Med, non-tidal

Either way, in the end I intend to go through another preparation week at some sailing school and only then attempt an exam.

What way would you go for?
 
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Charter. No external advice is a Pro.

You'll build up friends and aquaintances soon enough to make up crews. You should be able to sail comfortably three up, but four or five will lower the cost.

You're not really the skipper until the buck stops with you and you have no one to turn to and no one to drop hints to you. If not that confident take it easy on your first charter, you'll soon feel more comfortable and it'll show. Don't sail with wife/girlfriend until you're confident as getting agitated with them is not good news. Similar avoid important business contacts until you feel right about being in command.

The YM examiners aren't daft and can tell whether you're used to being in command. You'll know when you're ready to do the exam as you'll know you can manage a boat and crew and put them through their paces. Once you've reached that stage the exam should be a doddle.

PS Prob best to start off with weekend charters in the UK. Easier to drag mates out for a sail followed by beer in Yarmouth or Poole than get them for a two week holiday.
 
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I'd go with 2, it is the only way you will get experience as a skipper and the responsibilities that come with that. As you say finding crew could be difficult, are you a member of a yacht club?
 
Cheapest way to get miles is to volunteer as delivery crew, you get travel and food paid, plus loads of offshore miles. You won’t get that with a charter trip.

Google PYD or Halcyon
 
PPS. You can get in a fair bt of experience and miles delivering racers (as opposed to commercial deliveries). If you get on a crew there'll usually be a call to help out when they're taking the boat off to a regatta somewhere, e.g. Cork Week.
 
If time is limited and you want a 'result' in 2018, I'd say go with a school. Places like Hamble School of Sailing [and no doubt others] do zero-to-hero courses, but you can jump in at your level of experience. I did similar thing a few years back, with similar experience to what you have. They will give you the opportunity to complete passages as skipper, but you'll have the backup of an instructor on board until the final weeks, when the students go off alone.
One advantage of doing it that way is that they will know what you're likely to be tested on in the practicals and will soon see the areas you're weak at and focus on those. Some people are great helms but can't park, others can navigate to the dot, but can't handle the boat under sail...
There's no harm in talking to a school to see what they can do for you.
 
What the OP actually requires is two 60+ mile overnight passages as skipper.
There's actually not that much magic in long passages, apart from the planning, there's just as much management in a shorter passage.
So I would suggest chartering a boat if you can't borrow one, and doing the two passages over a few days.

Or speak to a few schools and see what they suggest.

In the limit, I think you could get away with having had a more experienced person aboard, if you were genuinely in charge of running the boat, planning, decision making.
I loaned my boat to a friend and just turned up as crew for this purpose. St Vaast and back via Weymouth.

It might be cheaper to be with a school where they get to charge the crew for mile building or something though.

I would say to plan doing a YM prep course before the exam. I (re) learned a few things for sure.
 
SteveSarabande said:
Cheapest way to get miles is to volunteer as delivery crew, you get travel and food paid, plus loads of offshore miles. You won’t get that with a charter trip.

Google PYD or Halcyon
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Tried deliveries. You can learn something, but not much. Long time at sea with no maneuvres. And no responsibility as crew
 
Gedimin said:
Tried deliveries. You can learn something, but not much. Long time at sea with no maneuvers. And no responsibility as crew
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Most longer passages don't involve many maneuvers . There isn't really that much traffic generally. I did RYA coastal Skipper in 2009, but felt no urge to do YM? Now have just under 8000NM and 3 Northern North sea crossings as skipper. They varied between hard work and a piece of pi**. Think about how and why you enjoy sailing before worrying yourself into a hole with YM as the goal?
 
Niether. Just put your passages in your logbook. The examiner will know that you have the experience. They're not really interested, other than to know that you've done milage and some passages.
 
In fact it might be even more about getting experince in as condensed period as possible rather than getting a ticket. I just want to use those few holiday weeks next year to progress as much as I can in sailing. YM Offshore will come naturally then
 
Bobc said:
Niether. Just put your passages in your logbook. The examiner will know that you have the experience. They're not really interested, other than to know that you've done milage and some passages.
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Not so. The examiners must be totally sure that you meet the pre exam requirements. You must also sign on your application form that you are making a true statement of your experience.

To OP, there is no substitute for going out there as skipper. Getting coached is important, but put the time in as the man.

Good luck, hope it goes well!
 
Gedimin said:
In fact it might be even more about getting experince in as condensed period as possible rather than getting a ticket. I just want to use those few holiday weeks next year to progress as much as I can in sailing. YM Offshore will come naturally then
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In which case, I'd definitely go with the school option. It will give you a concentrated, intensive programme that will improve your skills, which you can then practice in your own time.
 
capnsensible said:
To OP, there is no substitute for going out there as skipper. Getting coached is important, but put the time in as the man.
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Exactly. You're not really skipper until you have no one to turn to. Having an instructor or even an experienced skipper in the crew is just not the same.

My experience of examiners with the log book in two exams (CS exam & YM exam) varied from not looking at it and saying we'll soon see if your logged miles are true in one case to an hour's very knowledgeable grilling in the other.

For the OP: you could easily organise weekend charters with your mates on the Clyde or get cheap flights down to Southampton and do a Solent charter (Solent is better in the winter and gives a lot more tidal experience - Clyde is more scenic). If you can get people together for a week then do the W Coast or the Med.

Troon to Bangor is over 60m when you're looking for skippered passages. Enough traffic to practice with in the North Channel.
 
lpdsn said:
Exactly. You're not really skipper until you have no one to turn to. Having an instructor or even an experienced skipper in the crew is just not the same.

My experience of examiners with the log book in two exams (CS exam & YM exam) varied from not looking at it and saying we'll soon see if your logged miles are true in one case
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That's basically what I got. He didn't look at my logbook until the end, gave a quiet chuckle, and said "well it's obvious you know what you're doing anyway".
 
Bobc said:
That's basically what I got. He didn't look at my logbook until the end, gave a quiet chuckle, and said "well it's obvious you know what you're doing anyway".
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I reckon it must be obvious to them. A couple of times racing as a tactician I've had the owner turn up with a new crew member who had done this, that or the other. Ten minutes into the race and you know the owner has been bull^*&d.
 
capnsensible said:
there is no substitute for going out there as skipper. Getting coached is important, but put the time in as the man.
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lpdsn said:
You're not really skipper until you have no one to turn to. Having an instructor or even an experienced skipper in the crew is just not the same.
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I could not agree with this more although my opinion is possibly coloured by a lack of self-confidence (unlike many in the sailing fraternity) which has only been overcome by getting used to being the one responsible for not getting everyone killed.

Before buying a boat I recall looking at the price of chartering from the hamble and it seemed ridiculously expensive compared with med bareboat charter (so I never personally did it) but if you've got friends to spread it between then you won't get any better experience anywhere.

Crossing the channel in summer in a decent sized boat doesn't require anyone to stand a night watch. A cruise of the channel islands is also a plausible sell to friends as an enticing holiday idea. 2 big 60nm+ passages, some hugely technical tidal sailing and bragging rights for having visited sark and herm which the average non-sailing bloke in the pub hasn't even heard of. What's not to like?

A brief google for qualifications required to charter cross channel seems to say coastal skipper is fine, although one mentioned that a mate with at least day skipper was required.
 
Thank you for all your replies! It was very useful to hear all pros and cons, which were quite varied.

Most likely I will go for a milebuilding course to get this extra experience from much more skilled person (YM Ocean Instructor). All courses in the past gave me big boosts in knowledge. It seems like a good thing to do when you don't have too much time off work.

In addition to this, I will also start chartering yachts from Solent and Clyde on weekends to build my very own experience of being in charge. I have chartered yachts myself in the Med and remember how satisfying it was and what a different experience it is compared to when you have someone more skilled on board with you. It should be much easier to get crew together for a weekend sail rather then full week, plus UK ports are within easy reach unlike continental ones.

On this note, can someone recommend charter companies in the UK (does not matter where) who are open through the winter (here in Scotland many are closed) and will not completely rob me?
 
I reckon one week of option 2 followed by a week of option 1 would be best.

Definitely do a week of instructed sailing, particularly if you feel you've benefitted from similar experiences already.

The main thing is just to gain experience, whatever form it takes.

Good luck with it all. I've been through it all myself!
 
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