Getting calcium deposits outof toilet hoses with chemicals

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roger

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A friend of mine took out his toilet hose to find he only had a half inch hole down a 4 metre pipe (sorry 12.54 m. hole).
If you tried to get that out with acid you would need a lot of acid - and get a lot of frothing and acid aerosol too.
I did a bit of searching on the net. Suhamic acid is reaonably non corrosive ut nasty stuff in the lungs or eyes. It is often used for descaling. Decaling acids are also available. I uspect they are basically Hydochloric acid with corrosion inhibitors.
Have any of you used this sort of cleaning method? Citric and acetc acid would also be possible but I suspect rather pricey for the sort of calcium load I'm talking about. However new hose s pricey too and a pain to fit.
What has yur experienc been?
 
I accept that. It is a usual method and pretty effective. However just getting the hose out and back is a considerable nuisance - particlrly with 4 metres of hose. In another thread a cotributor was talking about the problms of fitting a new hose to an inaccessible seacock.
I am anxiou to know if anyone has tried using indutrial type descaling fluids on boat pipework.
 
The organic acids such as citric and acetic are too weak. They will take a long time.

Sulphamic acid (I assume that is what you meant) is somewhat stronger and is popular as a descaler, it will still take a bit of time if used cold as well.

A product known as Rydlyme is another possibility but i am uncertain as to what that is exactly.
see here

Frankly for cleaning pipes that have been removed from the boat i would use hydrochloric acid, obtainable as brick cleaner. OK some care will be necessary and maybe the effluent should be neutralised with washing soda.

The first line of attack should probably be to bash the pipe and get as much out physically first but then finish the job with HCl.

To avoid future problems a cup of white vinegar should be put through the system periodically and allowed to react for a few hours before flushing out. Very thorough flushing of the toilet will help as well.
 
Vics

SWMBO puts bleach down every outing, is this good, bad or indifferent (boat has holding tank)
 
Bleach wont stop the scaling, infact being strongly alkaline it might make it worse.

I understand why you might want to put it in the holding tank though. Don't use anything acid at the same time for goodness sake.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bleach wont stop the scaling, infact being strongly alkaline it might make it worse.

I understand why you might want to put it in the holding tank though. Don't use anything acid at the same time for goodness sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

omigaud... I shiver to think about what is likely to happen whem guys start to experiment with chimstry and holding tanks. It makes the standard worries about gas pale into insignificance. Can you imagine the chlorine gas generated by flushing HCl followed by bleach (or viceversa)? Imagine the battle fields around Ypres ca 1915-1918.

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Cut the old pipe out and replace with new soft and flexable pipe. The seacocks may be a pain to get to but it will save loads of pissing about in the end,dont leave it till its blocked solid like i did.
 
You should not use bleach with stainless steel. I had to replace both my SS holding tanks due to excessive use of bleach based cleaners.
 
putting strong acid into insitu pipework is not going to do much for your seacock, esp if you close the seacock to allow the acid to sit in the pipe for a while. Remove and replace the pipe.
 
One of ours is a pig to refit and passes through a holding tank diverter valve in the bilge. We turned off the seacock, disconnected the hose from the diverter value and had a good poke around in the pipe, then opened the seacock and let the water rinse through the pipe and dislodge the crud. A couple of cycles of this worked a treat.
 
I would contact Lee Sanitation, they offer excellent advice and have a range of environmentally safe products that also will not damage seals etc like bleach.
Used on a regular basis the cost may be be worth it in the long run.
For example:
LeeScale
A fast marine bio-degradable de-scaler.
• Environment safe
• Non Hazardous
• Non toxic
Lee-Scale Removes:
• Lime scale
• Rust scale
• Calcium

No hidden agenda by the way, just a satisfied customer!
• Toilet scale
And:
Clean 'n' Green Bowl Cleaner & Tank Deodorant
Clean any RV or marine toilet bowl and control holding tank odours with only one east-to-use, environmentally friendly Clean ‘n’ Green packet.
Powerful Action- Rapid dissolving 2-oz sachet effervesces in water, leaving ceramic and plastic toilet bowls sparkling clean.
Wont harm-plastics or rubber seals the way other cleaners can.
Non-toxic, Non-staining-contains 100%
biodegradable granules.
Improves Holding Tank Care- Enzymes
break down waste and tissue for thorough tank discharge.
 
I might be inclined to try oxalic acid on it. It's cheap enough, although I'm never sure what strength to use. It seemed to work well enough on the cooling system of our old engine, so I suppose it'd be OK for the toilet.
 
The best way is just to replace the pipe. You'll find that if it has a convoluted route from loo to seacock it will be impossible to remove in one piece. I had to cut up in situ and remove piecemeal. Even then the new 'flexible' no-smell hose was a b***** to thread through. On a short length, as long as you can get it out in one piece you can get out all the scale by bashing on the ground, but better to just replace for piece of mind.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I might be inclined to try oxalic acid on it

[/ QUOTE ] It would not be my choice for use as a descaler. Firstly calcium oxalate has a very low solubility and it would be better and more effective to use something which produces soluble reaction products. Secondly it is still a weak acid compared with hydrochloric acid or even sulphamic acid, even if stronger than acetic acid.
However it is not classed as harmful to the environment as both hydrochloric acid and sulphamic acid are.

It is claimed that Rydlyme marine is biodegradable but quite what it is apart from being a "revolutionary solution" I don't know
 
Many thanks for all the contributions. I must remember to check with Lee Sanitation at SBS. I cannot believe that hydrochloric acid is environentally damaging at sea. The seas are full of chloride ions. The acid or Hydrogen ion bit is common to all acids.
I would agree that strong acids and seacocks culd wel be very dodgy as would stainless steel pump rods in toilets. However the commercil descaling acids are usually "inhibited" to lessen the rate they dissolve metals.
t looks as if nobody has tried the experiment of using commercial (or industrial) descalers or sulphamic (sorry about the typos) acid.
I am dubious about these descalers in the inverted loops on most sailboat toilet exit pipes. The CO2 bubbles caused would be likely to empty the pipe you are trying to fill with descaler.
Incidentally I doubt if chlrine bleach damages Stainless holding tanks. It is an oxidising agent. The major problem for holding tanks is the reducing conditions caused by fermenting poo. This, added to the H2S formed under anaerobic conditions, prevents the chrome oxide reforming on the stainless so it can easily rot.
Curiously I dont think stainless stel tanks rot so fast in the Baltic so the lower salt content here is probably a factor.
 
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I cannot believe that hydrochloric acid is environmentally damaging at sea

[/ QUOTE ] I share your views really but it is classed as "dangerous for the environment"
<span style="color:white"> ........................................ </span>
environment.jpg


You are right about not being able to use any acid descalers in inverted loops but the original question was actually about cleaning pipes that had been removed.

I think you may also be right about the effects of chlorine bleach on stainless steel holding tanks. Bearing in mind that stainless requires an oxidising environment to maintain its protective oxide film it does, on the face of it, seem to be an unsuitable material for tanks that will have an anaerobic environment.
 
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