genoa sheets - a less bulky knot than a bowline?

Burnham Bob

Burnham Bob

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I've just come back from sailing and again when tacking the bowlines caught on the stays.

On the old boat I had one really long sheet with an eye in the middle that shackled onto the genoa - neat and tidy.

Bearing in mind that I wouldn't want to invest in new sheets but I have two separate ones, what do forumites use that is neater and less bulky than a bowline? Or should I just try for the smallest neatest bowline to attach the sheets?
 
Burnham Bob said:
On the old boat I had one really long sheet with an eye in the middle that shackled onto the genoa - neat and tidy.
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Shackles are now normally rejected because they can brain people.

You are a bit stuck if you have two sheets. I have adopted the method of one long sheet with a cow-hitch. Criticised on the forum as liable to slip. It has never slipped in the years I have used it. Indeed it is spectacularly difficult to undo or move it. A mate with a much bigger and more powerful yacht than mine does approaching 10k miles a year using this method and says it has never slipped.

If both sheets will fit through the hole in the jib you might be able to put the ends through in opposite directions and half-hitch them round each other - I suspect it'd hold.

Another method might be to make a cut-splice (sometimes known by a more colourful name which includes an "n") with one side going through the jib. I don't know how to make that splice in doublebraid, which is what my sheets are made of, but there's probably a way.
 
You could try a double fisherman's knot (with only one of the sheets going through the cringle). I'd sieze the ends.
 
I know this might be 'teaching grandma to suck eggs' and my apologies if this is the case but I discovered after a few such 'foulings' that there are two ways to tie a bowline. One has the tail on the outside of the knot and the other with the tail safely tucked away inside the loop.

It all depends on which way you take the 'rabbit' round the 'tree'. Keep the tail short so it all sits neatly inside and the difference is obvious and instantaneous.

Maybe not as elegant as some of the other solutions but quick, practical and free.

Chas
 
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chasroberts said:
I know this might be 'teaching grandma to suck eggs' and my apologies if this is the case but I discovered after a few such 'foulings' that there are two ways to tie a bowline. One has the tail on the outside of the knot and the other with the tail safely tucked away inside the loop.
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Tail on the inside is "proper", tail on the outside is what the Dutch are proud of doing different for some reason.

Pete
 
Burnham Bob said:
....the bowlines caught on the stays.

On the old boat I had one really long sheet with an eye in the middle that shackled onto the genoa - neat and tidy.

Bearing in mind that I wouldn't want to invest in new sheets but I have two separate ones
Click to expand...

FWIW....

With a pair of sheets, work an eye splice ( small ) into one end of each sheet. Pass one eye splice through your jib clew ring from left to right. Pass the other eye splice through the ring from right to left.

Pass the long standing end on the left through the loop of the eye splice now on the left. Similarly, pass the long standing end of the sheet on the right through the eye splice loop now on the right. Work tight....

With a long single sheet, you can do much the same. Find the middle, and bend two smallish loops, one in each hand, with about 6" between them. Pass the left loop through the clew ring from left to right. Pass the right loop through the clew ring from right to left.

Pass the end of the left sheet through the loop projecting to the left of the clew ring. Do the mirror-image with the right-hand standing end.

Work tight. :)
 
oldbilbo said:
FWIW....

With a pair of sheets, work an eye splice ( small ) into one end of each sheet. Pass one eye splice through your jib clew ring from left to right. Pass the other eye splice through the ring from right to left.

Pass the long standing end on the left through the loop of the eye splice now on the left. Similarly, pass the long standing end of the sheet on the right through the eye splice loop now on the right. Work tight....

With a long single sheet, you can do much the same. Find the middle, and bend two smallish loops, one in each hand, with about 6" between them. Pass the left loop through the clew ring from left to right. Pass the right loop through the clew ring from right to left.

Pass the end of the left sheet through the loop projecting to the left of the clew ring. Do the mirror-image with the right-hand standing end.

Work tight. :)
Click to expand...

Bummer, DOUBLE BUMMER
I removed my cow-hitch after seeing comments/photo of a crushed cringle; cut the sheet in two and used the bowline method (which sometimes catches the shrouds).
WISH I'd seen your solution!
Hey ho, when I buy my next new jib sheets, prob around turn of century!
Incidentally, my "soft shackle" blew out in a force 7. But I have to admit I made it my self and the "tail" part was too thin for the eye. Very nearly a verrry costly experience.
 
If you do use the bowline method, tightly wrapping the knot and especially the tail in electrical tape or self-amalgamating tape makes it much less likely to catch on the shrouds.
 
vyv_cox said:
I bought mine, but they are superb. Spliced sheets and a soft shackle, nothing to hang up on a babystay.
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+1.

I have used that method for the last three years. The Sheets are 16mm English Braids braid on braid. Last year one splice began to open, so I just cut it off, reversed the sheet, and spliced the other end. The soft shackle is made of dyneema.
 
Taping or Whipping Sheets

I have done this with two "conventional" bowlines, and used amalgamating tape. It doesn't totally eliminate the problem, but the sheets catch about 80% less.
 
Burnham Bob said:
what do forumites use that is neater and less bulky than a bowline? Or should I just try for the smallest neatest bowline to attach the sheets?
Click to expand...

I use a single long sheet with an alpine butterfly (tied the long way through the cringle) at the mid point.
A bourach to tie initialy, but only a single knot involved.
 
'A bourach...'
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I like the sound of that. Thanks, 'AfterPegassus'....

bourach
(boor·ach) Dialect, chiefly Scot ~n.
1. small hill or mound.
2. disorganized heap or mass (as in “Last went and it turned intae a right bourach“).
3. a crowd or group of people.
4. a small, humble house.
5. a muddle; mess; state of confusion (often in “That room o’ yours is a total bourach. Get in there an’ get it tidied!“).
Click to expand...

:D
 
Not a good idea if you sail much - a shackle comes undone if you allow sheets to flog and if anyone is up on the foredeck they run the real risk of getting brained.

I had a shakle arrangement on my first boat, took it off and replaced it with individual sheets and still have the original one-piece sheet here at home 40 years later.

IMHO a very unseamanlike arrangement which appears to the unused to be a good idea.
 
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