Genoa fouling babystay

[pappaecho]

My new to me Evasion 32 has a babystay, and which almost by definition will result in a full genoa, catching on the stay during tacking.
I usually attach the jibsheets, with bowlines to the sail. What is the best method of attaching the jibsheets to the sail without causing a "knot" which fouls the babystay.
The alternative as I see it is to remove the babystay, as the boat now has two forestay from the top of the mast - one to hold the mast up and a second to run the foil for the genoa reefing gear. What is the downside to removing the babystay?

 

[bugs]

Baby stay is good for putting prebend in the sail going upwind. Effect is to flatten the main and depower it.
Downwind its often released or removed to allow for spin pole gybing.
Try tying the bowline very long and very short (maybe one on each side) to see if either if better.
Im sure there are other rig configurations where the babystay may be more important.

You could splice the sheets onto the clew to minimise the knot size.
Use one long sheet and tie a low profile type knot onto the clew in the middle of the sheet. A bend miight be better considering the load.
you could splice a jib shackle (the locking type which are quite flat) onto the sheet instead of the knot.

I sailed on a boat in the US once that had a couple of hollow plastic balls on the babystay. Large versions of those practice golf balls. Probably available in a toy shop...
This deflected the sail during the tack.
Maybe sliding a short length of 2" white drainpipe onto the part of the baby stay would do the same thing.

 

[Krusty]

If your rig has the lower stays raked aft, the primary purpose of a baby-stay is to balance the backward pull to stabilise the mid-point of the mast. A variable backstay tension is then used to bend the mast and flatten the mainsail. If you remove the baby-stay you invite a broken mast! Splice the genoa sheets and protect the splices from chafe. Do not tack too often: if you must, then roll in some of the genoa, or change to a working jib. Or have your crew walk the clew round. NO, that is not a joke: it used to be standard practice!

 

[pappaecho]

I should have added two items. The babystay has 1.5 inch black plastic tube ( rigid) to prevent fouling: it doesnt.
Secondly the babystay come from a fitting about 2 ft below the cross trees. The secondary shrouds are mounted directly from the crosstrees.
The backstay is fixed. As a ketch rig the main mast essentially holds up the mizzen witha triastic stay which links the two. This means that there is no option on changing tension in the main backstay. I suspect that the solution may be to use the babystay rigged in stronger winds when the full genoa would not be used, and to stow it in lighter airs.

 

[TigaWave]

Get a piece of plastic pipe that will fit over the stay and adjuster assuming there is one? 2-3" diameter usually works, normal bowlines slip round quite easy then...
In addition to the other comments above the baby stay prevents pumping of the mast when pushing it upwind in bumpy seas, so best leave it there.
My experience comes from racing a Sweden 38 with baby stay, so lots of tacks with bowlines.

 

[fireball]

As a suggestion - don't use a bowline or any kind of loop - use a stopper knot - a thumb knot is smaller than the figure of eight and is what a lot of racing dinghies use to reduce weight on the jib - and on the assymetric it helps stop the clew from catching on the jib luff ...

 

[tsmyth]

For what it is worth.

I had this problem with an 18' trailer salier.

I light airs the genoa, or jib, caught on the baby stay.

I put a length of about 1.5" PVC rigid pipe on the baby stay and this helped, but even then in light air the sail sometimes caught and had to be "walked around".

So, I adopted the technique of lashing the baby stay to the mast in light air.

It was sometimes interesting when sailing on my own of the foresail caught on the jib. I had to leave the helm to walk the sail around the baby stay. While doing this the boat followed her own inclinations.
As a result, sometimes a tack required more than one attempt, and could even result in a 360 turn.

Ray

 

[William_H]

All the ideas are good. The idea of disconnecting the baby stay in light airs is Ok but there is a danger. The danger to the mast comes I suspect largely from forestay load so a large genoa in medium winds ie top of its range would be the most dangerous. You would have to be very diligent to reconnect the baby stay as wind got up. You would need a high field lever or powerfully pulley system to enable you to reconnect the baby stay quickly.
Perhaps you should consider dual forward swept intermediate stays in place of the one baby forestay. It would mean more chain plates fitted and would possibly still foul the jib but worth considering They should emulate the aft swept intermediate sidestays in attachment and placing of the chainplates. Of course fractional rigs use aft swept spreaders to provide the push forward in the middle to substitute the baby forstay. This would solve your problem but should be properly engineered to give adequate mast support. Under pressure a mast can come down really easily so be carefull. Olewill

 

[pappaecho]

Thanks for all the advice. I have made a decision - the baby stay goes.
Today we rafted my brothers boat a Kingfisher 30 along side. They use the same masts, made by Proctor, except that the Kingfisher mast is about 6 higher as it is a sloop not a ketch like the Evasion. The sail area of the mainsail on the Kingfisher is 20% larger.
The Kingfisher has no baby stay, but an identical rigs apart from two backstays, rather than one backstay and a triastic stay between the main and mizzen masts. The Kingfisher is 8 years older, has no babystay and the mast is more heavily loaded by bigger main, and the mast is fine.
The babystay will be used in heavy weather to fly the storm jib, other than that, it stays furled to the mast!

 

[Guest]

Have you triued backing the genny to get it to fly across instead of pulling by sheets ?

I used to have a pig of a boat that caught clew on spinny pole fixing on mast or of babystays etc. etc. Got fed up with it ... tried all sorts in the end because I changed to holding the genny till it back-filled and then wind BLEW the genny across instead of me pulling it by sheeting .... found that a) my tacks were more positive, b) tacking was quicker, c) the clew rarely got caught !!

Worth a try ?

 

[William_H]

Let me just reiterate that going with baby stay disconnected is risky. You need to ensure that when using the genoa as soon as there is any heeling of the boat that you reconnect it. I am sure with a little wind pressure it will tack ok just difficult with light winds. it is the forstay pressure that will snap the mast and this can easily come from the genoa in ordinary winds. olewill

 

[tsmyth]

I should point out that I disconnected the baby stay in very light air, and I used a high field lever (as Wlliam has suggeted ) on it. Moreover, this was on an 18' trailer sailer.

I did try backing the jib (as suggested by Nigel) to get it to fly across, and sometimes this worked.

My "new"boat is a 22 footer. It has forward and aft lower shrouds on a masthead rig. In light air I find that the knot on the jib sheet catches on the lower forward shrouds. I am thinkng about putting PVC pipe on these.


However, until I get my new mast and rig it I will not be sailing for a while. Stupid me - I lost my mast on an overhead power line near the ramp. Shows what a competent salier I am!

Ray