Genoa Clutch block deck fitting

[waterline]

I have a new Jeanneau SUN 2000 21' trailer sailer, and would be grateful of any assistance in positioning a couple of deck clutch fittings.

The boat has a couple of reasonable size Harken winches on the coachroof that are used primarily for the Genoa sheets. I would like to replace the simple open jamming blocks that are used to hold the Genoa sheets fast once they have been winched in, with Clutch/jamming blocks. These would be installed a few inches in front of the winches, and once the sheets have been tensioned on the winch, then the sheets could be held in the clutch blocks. I am hoping this will make tacking a little easier, as the sheets sometimes get caught in the existing jamming blocks.

My concern is this; I have looked at some larger boats, and found that on the whole, most larger craft have separate winches in the cockpit for the Genoa sheets and tend to use the winches installed on the coachroof for winching main halyards etc. not for winching Genoa sheets!
Is my idea sound, i.e. using clutch fiitings to hold the Genoa sheets, so I can then release tension from the winches?
The coachroof is constructed from injected resin and has no lining. I was going to bolt through the clutch fittings about 9" in front of the winches and use "penny" washers on the inside. Is this likely to be strong enough?
Any comments about the above would be much appreciated

 

[Jeremy_W]

The "fewer winches" trend is very common. I once counted THIRTEEN winches on the deck of a 1970's 37-footer. By the eighties that would have been reduced six and today, typically it's four. Your ideas seem sound, but you'd better find someone more mechanically-minded to check the details.

 

[dickh]

Genoa sheets are not usually fitted with jammers or clutches as you might need to release them quickly; easier and safer when on a winch than trying to use a jammer/clutch. Jammers and Clutches are used on lines which only need adjusting occasionally like Halliards, reefing lines etc.
It's not clear from your post wether the winches are also used for the halliards? If so then you should use the jammers/clutches for these and not for the sheets. I always prefer clutches as they are much easier to release than jammers. If you were to fit clutches for the halliards, fit large stainless steel plates underneath, at least twice the base area of the clutch, say 3mm thick, much stronger than penny washers as it will spread the load better. Also clutches tend to have smoother outline than jammers and your sheets should not get snagged on them.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Robin2]

What exactly do you mean by a "simple open jamming block" - has it a sheave (wheel) in it?

I ask because I am planning to put Barton "foot blocks with cam" on my boat and maybe this is the sort of thing you are having problems with.

The Barton product has a sheave around which the sheet will turn to lead to the winch. There is a lever to allow me to jam the rope so that I can take it off the winch when I need to use the winch for something else. You can see it on Barton's web site (www.bartonmarine.com) under new products.

 

[Robin2]

I am deliberately bringing this back to the top in the hope of getting an answer to my question in my previous post before I modify my boat.

 

[dickh]

The only problem with your 'block with jammer' is that you will still need the winch to release the load, with clutches all you do is release the lever. You don't say what you are trying to jam/release so difficult to give an exact answer.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Strathglass]

Dont even think about it until you have sailed for at least part of a season, especially in gusty conditions. On your boat you must be able to dump the sheets quickly. That is the reason why the manufacturers have fitted the existing fitting.
Why not fit an open turning block near each winch so that you can use the other winch for other tasks.
I sailed an E-boat for many years and would not consider fitting a jambing cleat on the genoa sheet.

Iain

 

[Robin2]

This is getting a bit out of control. I have been hoping to get an answer from the originator of this thread so that I can understand the problem s/he has.

I don't have an "existing fitting" and I am the manufacturer. Also, there is a doghouse between the two winches so lines can't go from one side to the other.

At the moment my jib sheets are anchored by the port or starboard winch, as appropriate. I want to be able to anchor the sheet and release it from the winch temporarily so I can use the winch for another purpose - eg reefing.

 

[Strathglass]

Robin, I now understand your problem more. Why not fit a pair of Spinlock BSA63 or BSA75 locking turning blocks in the path between the job fairleads and your winches.
They can lock off and on and would be much better for your task then a rope clutch.
To mount them you require a pad underneath the deck at least the size of the fitting itself.
I use a pair of BSA63 on the genoa traveller control line on a larger yacht and find them very good.

Iain
You could also mount the winches on wooden pads then the unused sheet can be dropped from the winch on to the pad.

 

[chippie]

Robin, have you considered setting up some blocks so you can reef from the free winch? The point made earlier about having to dump sheets quickly is a valid one, and conditions that you have to reef in are possibly those you have to dump sheets in also. In practice I have found some rope clutches hard to release when fully loaded.

I like the look of your cat, what design/size is it and how long did it take to build it?

 

[dickh]

My experience with LEWMAR clutches is that they are very easy to release - I use them on Main Halliard, Kicking Strap, Reefing lines, Storm Jib Forestay and Storm Jib Halliard. I also have a RUTGERSON clutch for my Sailspar genoa reefing gear(as I can dismantle and feed the endless line thro').

Robin, your other solution would be to fit a dedicated halliard/reefing winch with a bank of clutches. Don't use jammers as they are difficult to release when under load.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Robin2]

The parts I am planning to fit are the Barton equivalents of the Spinlock parts you mention. I had got the impression from the original post by "Waterline" that s/he ahd some problems with those sort of fittings.

 

[dickh]

'Simple open jamming block' - is this the Cam Cleat? the 'VEE' block with internal ridges? If so don't use them, they are no good with braided ropes, (OK with 3 strand rope I think) I removed all mine and replaced with clutches or cleats. They seem to work for a short time, then the rope suddenly releases itself.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[iainmillett]

Can't help - sorry - but I'd be interested to hear how you make out with the boat as I'm considering buying one!

 

[Strathglass]

It is amazing how your opinions change. I was motiring up the Caledonian canal on Sunday in a Ben 35S5 and it was fitted as standard with a lever type cleat about 12 inches in front of both primary winches. The only use for them is for freeing up the winches for other tasks such as when using the spinny. One of the photos I took shows those cleats. If anyone wants a copy just send your email address via a PM and I will email it.
Iain