Genoa cars - fixed or "floating" ?

[Boo2]

Hi,

Sunrunner (UFO 34) has genoa cars that have a pin fixing them in position on the tracks. This means it's hard to know where to put them and you need to keep moving them about. Is there any reason not to just remove the pins ? Are there points of sail where fixing the cars is a good thing to do ? And how do you decide where to put them if you do leave the pins in ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[BlueSkyNick]

You dont want them to be able to float as you put it, they come too far back when going to windward.

If you take the pins out, you will need to make them towable to keep them in the correct position, from control lines in the cockpit.

 

[Twister_Ken]

The cars need to be locked at every point of sail. They should be moved as the wind strength changes, as the point of sail changes, and as the genoa is rolled to reef it.

As to knowing where to put the car, experiment until you find the fastest position for that sail setting, point of sail and wind strength then write down where it is. Either magic marker numbers on the deck next to every tenth hole or - if that's too untidy, buy some sticky numbers and put them there. Then, next time you're sailing in similar conditions you'll know say, that the starting fairlead position is at hole 22.

 

[Resolution]

Genoa Cars

To get the best trim on your genoa you must be able to fix the cars. The position will vary mainly according to the strength of the wind, and to some extent on the direction.
Moving the car alters the angle of pull of the genoa sheet on the sail. Move the car forward, the sheet pulls down more and the top of the sail is tightened and powered up. Move aft and you have a flatter bottom half but looser top part.
For max power, somewhere in the middle. You can find this accurately if you have telltales on the genoa luff: luff up gently and if all three telltales break simultaneously you are perfect. If the top one breaks first then move the car forward a bit, and vice versa.

Moving the car aft can be very useful in stronger winds as it depowers the top of the sail and enables you to carry the genoa for longer than you would otherwise be able.

Most racing yachts will be adjusting the car position frequently and will have a free sliding car with a line to pull the car forward as desired.

Edit: TK types faster!

 

[William_H]

Jib Sheet Cars

I think without the locking pins the car might tend to slide backwards as you crank on the sheet. A bit of friction may be adequate to keep them in place. But all I have seen have the locking pin. Serious racing yachts have a bungy and tackle to locate and move the cars conveniently from the cockpit.

The correct location of the cars is vital for efficient sailing especially to windward. Basically if the car is too far forward then your jib sheet is going to pull the leach (back) of the sail down very tight but allow the foot to curve outwards with insufficient pull backwards of the clew. Back corner of the sail)
If the car is too far aft it will pull the foot out nice and flat but allow the leach to be too loose resulting in the top half of the jib falling away to leeward with no power.
So because the sail is a triangle you must balance the direction of pull generally somewhere toward the middle of the sail to get the whole sail working.
You may find that your jib has tell tales in 3 pairs up the front of the jib. These tell if the sail is too tight (stalling) or too loose (luffing) They are at 3 different levels to show if top middle or bottom of the sail is luffing early when you turn up into the wind. You need them to show luffing simultaneously. Showing top or bottom is not too tight compared to the rest of the sail
Note however the above relates to beating into the wind (close hauled). If you turn the boat onto a reach iue wind near at rightangles to your sailing direction you need to release the jib sheet. This release has the effect of easing the leach sooner than the foot so inevitably the top of the sail falls away and you lose drive from the top. The answer then is to move the car forward by about 40 cms in your case. Actually what is better in this case is to move the jib sheeting point outboard but this is often difficult. I use another pulley attached to the gunwhale and forward of normal sheeting point with a separate sheet for reaching.
Now all this is fine for one hank on jib. If however you have a furling jib or change to a smaller hank on then you must have precise position of the jib car to suit the new or partially furled jib. I use hank on and have a mark painted for car location. Forward for smaller jib.
If on occasions the car is not set to the correct place the boat just doesn't sail to windward properly. It is very important.So while with a furling jib you can furl from the cockpit if the wind comes up you must also move the jib cars (forward). Hence the value of remote (using pulleys) operated cars.
good luck olewill
3 more late night posts while i typed all this.

 

[fireball]

Hi,

Sunrunner (UFO 34) has genoa cars that have a pin fixing them in position on the tracks. This means it's hard to know where to put them and you need to keep moving them about. Is there any reason not to just remove the pins ? Are there points of sail where fixing the cars is a good thing to do ? And how do you decide where to put them if you do leave the pins in ?

Thanks,

Boo2

of course you should move them about - ideally ... but tbh - if you're cruising and just enjoying a little sail then leaving the cars in a neutral position won't hurt too much ...
but don't remove the pins without having a method of holding them forwards ..

 

[Simondjuk]

When sailing to windward, aside from hoisting and roughly sheeting the sails, adjusting the genoa cars is the first step in trimming.

Until the cars are set, the genoa cannot be properly trimmed, and until that is done, the main cannot be properly trimmed.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Boo2 as others have said you should retain the lock pin and adjust the cars as required. In its simplest terms the cars are adjusted back for large headsails and forward for small headsails. An approximate position for the car when starting off is such that the sheet bisects the luff at the mid point.

If your headsail is stretched because it is old it may be difficult finding the spot where all tell tales lift simultaneously, if that is the case concentrate on the middle and lower tell tales.

I can recommend the following book on sail trim which has good illustrations and descriptions to aid learning about optimum sail trim for combinations of sails, wind and waves: -

Illustrated Sail and Rig Tuning, Ivar Dedekam, Fernhust Books, ISBN 1 898660 67 0. This is for the edition published in the year 2000. There may be answer edition.

The RYA also produce a book on adjusting sails available via their website.

 

[sailorman]

When sailing to windward, aside from hoisting and roughly sheeting the sails, adjusting the genoa cars is the first step in trimming.

Until the cars are set, the genoa cannot be properly trimmed, and until that is done, the main cannot be properly trimmed.

And that is very easy with "towable" cars.
fix the pins in the up position or remove them & add a single block + becket forrard end of the track

 

[Boo2]

Boo2 as others have said you should retain the lock pin and adjust the cars as required. In its simplest terms the cars are adjusted back for large headsails and forward for small headsails. An approximate position for the car when starting off is such that the sheet bisects the luff at the mid point.

Thanks to all for the replies. I will adjust as per the above and see how I get on and may also try the suggested trimming books.

Boo2