Generators - Fischer Panda v Onan

jimmy_the_builder

jimmy_the_builder

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Anyone got any experience of the Fisher Panda PMS 4000i (4kw, variable speed, pure sine wave, weighs about 80kg, costs about £5k+ vat). I'm trying to work out if it is better or worse than the Onan QD50 that I currently have (4kw, single speed, but weighs about 170kg, costs about £6k+vat). Are the Onan's really that much better to justify the slight cost premium - and the big weight gain? The onan seems pretty quiet to me, but again I've got no experience of anything else so it's hard to compare.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
Not sure if I can help?

Had an old Onan which was reliable but the electrical side was doodgy, now have a Kolher 9kw which I would highly reccommend, which is quite and very good.

Tom
 
A little info.

Never had a FP, heard of a few stories, but nothing directly as I've not had one. Had Onan and Kohler's - and neither had/has missed a beat.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think your weight comparasions are not correct

[/ QUOTE ]

I presume you're aiming that at me, not Adrianb. The Fischer Panda website gives the PMS4000i as 79kg; the Cummins Onan website gives the QD50 as 166kg. Where do you think I've gone wrong?

Cheers
Jimmy
 
Jimmy, imho this is a no-brainer: Onan

An alarm bell rings with "pure sine wave". A proper genset is always pure sine wave as a matter of geometry, cos it is spinning at a precisely governed rpm. So good gensets tend not to state "pure sine wave", as it is a given.

The FP has no rpm control, and varies rpm according to electrical demand. At peak power it likely runs at high rpm to get more power from small engine. This strips out cost and weight obviously. This produces dirty AC electricity not at 50Hz which is then rectified to DC then inverted back to 50Hz AC using an in built pure sine wave inverter. Talk about going round the houses. This is fine for a Kipor or whatever "briefcase" generator but it is not fine for a pukka installation imho

It'll be noisier and more annoying. When you turn the kettle on you'll hear the genset rev up. How crap is that? With a proper genset when the kettle is turned on the revs (2400rpm in the QD50 case) stay constnat, electronically governed - the engine just produces more torque which is not noticeable by you.

All this accounts for the extra weight of the Onan of course. The Onan engine has to make 4KVA at 2400rpm whereas the FP probably revs to 3500 ish. So the diesel engine has to be bigger in Onan

Also with Onan you can get nice plug and play digital panels - I've got one of these but not installed it yet

digitaldisplay.jpg


BTW, the Onan on my old boat has done 1700hrs (not a lot for a genset) and not missed a beat. Spares are reaosnble price, bt boaty standards :-)
 
Jimmy,

The view I've been getting back is in favour of the Onan as well. However Michelle has done some work with Mastervolt recently, but not sure what their Genset products are like - anyone any expreience?
We're looking at one of these to add to the boat for 2009.

Phil
 
I dont have exp of mastervolt gensets though I've fitted their battery chargers and inverters and they are top top stuff. I just looked at their website and the small gensets (5kw) are "proper" ones with constnat rpm but they are all 3000rpm which is imho inferior to the 2400rpm Onan. The higher rpm invariably makes a more instrusive noise and of course wear rates are higher. Bigger gensets are all 1500rpm (for european 50Hx electricity; they run at 1800rpm for USA 60Hz) and that is best in the noise department
 
I have had a lot of experience with Mastervolt 3500 generators - all bad! However, mine was purchased in 2001 and they have made great improvements since then. However, the main problem was that the electronic control panel was mounted on the generator and, during a transatlantic crossing, the vibration caused the relays and other components to break off the PCB! Mastervolt have since mounted the electronics off the engine. There was also a manufacturing fault which resulted in seawater mixing with the lubrication/cooling oil. This was repaired in Australia by a complete stripdown and rebuild of the generator. Other problems followed in Turkey when a corroded valve caused low compression and the head had to come off.

However, as I said earlier - Mastervolt are well aware of the shortcomings with the old models and have now redesigned the generator and I'm sure that they are now as good as Onan and probably cheaper, but be aware and ask the salesman what recent changes have been made and why. Be an "intelligent customer"!

Cheers,

Peter
 
We have Onan 17.5kva on SV - it's great.

Very quiet - actually I ran all the way from Holyhead with it running and didn't notice until I was securing the stern lines /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
That's a very nice gen SV, same as I have on the Sq. It's a 4 cyl 2.2 litre kubota diesel with electronic rpm control and it's a 1500rpm-er so it purrs. I have got into the habit of leaving a (230v) table lamp turned on at sea, to remind me its running, cos you can't hear it
 
Onan must make good product or they'd go out of business. After all, who'd want to say, "I'm really impressed by this company. In fact, I'm so enthusiatic that you could call me an onanist."
 
Yip and easily copes with MrsSV's hairstyling machines while I look at the SatTV /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Onan must make good product or they'd go out of business. After all, who'd want to say, "I'm really impressed by this company. In fact, I'm so enthusiatic that you could call me an onanist."

[/ QUOTE ] I had a friend with a budgie named Onan - so-called because he was always spilling his seed on the ground....

I'll get me coat.
 
I have a few boats with different generators onboard, But i would say that by far the best was a Onan, I used it as a live aboard & when i sold the boat on it had 16,000 hours on it, The model was 17.5MDKBE, it was a 1500rpm engine & very quite. I would not recommend a Fisher Panda at all.
 
Well, it may have been a lovely explanation from JFM and it also made sense, but it doesn't back up my findings as I have a Fish Panda onboard.

It's a 4500-5000 Kva (not sure which) and is extremely quiet. It does NOT rev up when I plug in the kettle and it does maintain constant revs!

I have no doubt that the Onan's are a good product but if your power requirements are small why carry around 166Kg to run a TV or boil a kettle? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Totally different if you want reverse cycle air cond and you need 10Kwatts but for UK spec boat, 5Kw is plenty.

So far, I'm very impressed with this compact unit and the installation is perfect with a very tidy and clearly marked control panel with all the failsafe devices... In short bloody good! I would certainly recommend the F/'Panda. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

For the record, I don't think we should be comparing 17.5 Kwatt generators on live aboard boats in the same breath. If I was living aboard I would choose something different too! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
but if yours is a constant revver it must be a different model? Jimmy TB is referring to a variable speed (his words) genset with a sine wave inverter. All imho, happy to be corrected if the FPs work differently from what I'm suggesting :-)
 
Evening all. JFM's recollection is correct - I was referring to this model of FP which reduces rpm at low load (confirmed by the chap at FP that I spoke to). Rog - which one have you got?

Cheers
Jimmy
 
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