Gas regulator replacement

[Ruffles]

I've been meaning to replace my butane regulator and pipe for ages. Popped into a caravan shop a while back thinking I would save some money. I was disappointed that they only sold the regulators that mount direct to the bottle with a spigot for the pipe.

My gas locker has the regulator fixed to the side with a pipe connecting to the bottle as shown:

Thinking about it though, mounting the regulator on the bottle means that the pipe is under much less pressure and the consequences of the pipe failing much less serious.

What's the normal modern setup on a boat? And if my current setup is preferred way of doing things where do I get the replacement bits?

 

[baggypipes]

your set up looks very unusual not seen one like that would sugest a regulator on the top of the bottle is prefered as you expressed. HOWEVER best advice anyone can give you is contact a LPG gas fitter first. Some marinas may want to see a gas safety cert, also heard insurance companies are starting to require one. hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DanTribe]

I think the Calor gas recomendation is similiar to your set up BUT with some very important differences.
1/ The regulator should be fixed to a bulkhead manifold, not loose.
2/ the hose between bottle & regulator should be armoured high pressure hose, yours appears to be normal low pressure hose.
3/ the hose ends should be crimped, not Jubilee clips.

I didn't like having a high pressure hose, so opted for a bottle mounted regulator. The Corgi who came to check it agreed that it is one less opportunity for leaks.
Sorry, I would be a bit concerned with your set up.
Worth getting a Corgi to check it.

Dan

 

[Ruffles]

Agree with you re avoiding high pressure hose.

The setup as shown was certified for charter and so presumably would have had a certificate from a qualified fitter. And the pipe is neither high pressure nor armoured!

The fixed pipe is copper so the coupling to the low pressure hose will need to be attached to the bulkhead to avoid stress.

Anyone fitted a remote controlled valve? Are they worth it?

 

[DavidGrieves]

Hi

I think your set up is correct ie regulator attached to locker.

You can get loads of advice here
http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/installation/marine_gas_regulators.htm

Calor marine also sell all the bits you'll need to replace your ageing system, good advice from them too.

Warning:
Be prepared to get loads of well meaning advice/abuse from the "must be corgi brigade"

Fit a test point http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/acatalog/test_points_testers.html or even a bubble leak detector http://www.chandleryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Gas_Leak_Detection.html

Test it with one of these http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=6629&MAN=Monument-258f-Gas-Test-Gauge-60mb-600mm-24in

Surely, a boat owner with a good sound knowledge of his system with the right equipment to test it has got to be safer than somebody who neglects his.

Don't let anybody bully you down the corgi route, there is no legislation for a private boat owner to use a corgi guy, but if it's chartered, rented or you are doing work for somebody else, then thats a differnt matter...

Sit back and wait for the onslaught...

 

[DanTribe]

Agreed that you don't have to have a Corgi man, but in my case my insurers wanted a survey, and the surveyor passed the buck and recomended a gas certificate.
In fact the gas man was a yachtie and had some very good common sense advice.
His hi-tech test equipment detected a small leak which was otherwise not found.
He also sold me a few fittings at a fraction of the price from Socal.
I thought the money was well spent, even if only for peace of mind.
[And I dont like spending money, if it's not on shiny things]

 

[jcmmarine]

Do you intend traveling abroad.
I find it better to have the the regulator that fits to the bottle and that you area able to change.
I now have 4 types of regulator/connection. Calor, as you show, is not available abroad, but I can now easily take most kinds of bottle that is available.
Unfortunatly they do not always allow the lid to fit on the gas locker.

 

[VicMallows]

If you do want to renew with a bulkhead installation, the caravan shop between Emsworth and Southbourne on the old A27 has everything you might need. (I'm sure many others do also).

Vic

 

[Talbot]

From what I can see, your system has been cobbled together from a normal regulator and normal lower pressure piping. I would be amazed if a corgi inspection didnt go ballistic.

I have a similar set up made by Gaslow, but there is a significant difference. - The high pressure side is made from special pipiing designed to withsatnd the pressure.

Are you aware that all flexible gas piping has an expiry date on it and that the regulators should be replaced after 5 years?

 

[Ruffles]

Talbot,

Yes, I'm aware that gas pipe and regulator are dated. Though not telling you the year on the pipe!

Thanks for the reminder about a test point. I'll get one ordered ASAP.

Interesting link to calor marine shop. They have a photo of the exact unit I have with the same flexible pipe:

They also suggest a rigidly mounted regulator. I'll call them up for advice.

Thanks all.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
The setup as shown was certified for charter

[/ QUOTE ] There is no way that should have passed an inspection.

I think the Calormarineshop link should also link you to the Boat Safety Scheme requirements but if not then access them directly at:
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/Home_1.asp. See the "get the guide" tab(section 7 is the section on lpg installations).

Once you have identified the bits you need you will find BES much less expensive. I am assured all their stuff is good quality despite the much lower prices.

I personally prefer the regulator to be bottle mounted as that reduces the number of connections and the HP hose. However it is better bulkhead mounted if you want to have the option of also using Camping Gaz bottles. You can also get the adaptor/valve from BES

As alredy stated the regulators should be replaced after 5 years and the hoses after 10 years ( My regualor is coming up to 30 years so must do something about that).

Like David Grieves I prefer to avoid these Corgis (I told one lot, that had to be called back to rectify many defects on a new installation in school science lab, that we would have been better off with French poodles) but it is irresponsible to encourage you to do otherwise!

You may find this thread from almost a year ago interesting. In particular you will find the posts from Phillip Stevens on testing the system very useful if you are planning to refurbish the syetem yourself

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?C...true#Post952167

 

[rogerthebodger]

Have a look at the B.E.S web site all kinds of regulators here

 

[mr_bosun]

For what it's worth, I have an almost identical setup on my narrowboat (although propane as opposed to butane), except that there is an automatic change over allowing two bottles to be connected. Had a Corgi man out last spring prior to the BSS inspection. He replaced the pipes from the cylinders to the change over value which is integral with the regulator, advised that the bottles should be retained by chain instead of line, suggested a gas detector be fitted and tested the system. Seemed like money well spent.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Bodach na mara]

I cannot agree fully with Talbot about the installation pictured, as the connection from bottle to regulator looks like the "pigtail" sold to me by the Calor Gas shop. The bottom end should go directly to regulator however and not be bodged via a bit of copper tube. The orange rubber tube is high pressure tube, provided it came from a reputable supplier.

On the advice given at the Calor shop (very helpful they were too) I installed a wall-mounted regulator and double wall-block manifold with one pigtail to each of the two bottles. The manifold has non-return valves incorporated, so I do not need to disconnect the pigtail when one bottle runs out, just turn off one valve and turn on another. All this is in a locker with ventilation overboard from the bottom.

I do not really trust the non-return valves however enough to leave only one bottle connected. They do leak a little, but below the specification allowed (four bubbles per minute.) I had a chat to my gas engineering colleagues about this and found out that this is not really significant; that is why the locker needs to be vented overboard. A more significant (and unavoidable) leak is usually found past the O-ring of the bottle valve.

The best advice when dealing with gas is to assume the worst and plan to avoid it. It is dangerous stuff but safe enough if handled properly. The advice on ventilation and leak testing, together with planned renewal of tubing must be taken seriously.

 

[Ruffles]

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot agree fully with Talbot about the installation pictured, as the connection from bottle to regulator looks like the "pigtail" sold to me by the Calor Gas shop. The bottom end should go directly to regulator however and not be bodged via a bit of copper tube. The orange rubber tube is high pressure tube, provided it came from a reputable supplier.


[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at the various suppliers websites I tend to agree with you. However I think the pipe was bought assembled in an earlier version of one of these:

and is made to attach to a wall block. It seems that all flexible gas pipe is 'high pressure' if it's made To BS3212 Part 2.

I think I have enough information to order the bits - except the diameter of the gas pipe which I neglected to measure when last on the boat! I will also order a bubble tester for peace of mind.

One the subject of gas safety, I've been keeping a spare gas cylinder in the garage. Picked it up the other day and discovered it was completely empty with the tap open. Strongly suspect my 3 year old son may have something to do with it. Good job he doesn't smoke!