Gas or Spirit Stoves?

[RS123]

While recently buying my first boat (Hunter Delta 25) the surveyor condemned both the gas bottle siting (in the deck locker - with the engine!) and the cooker itself. I have had an eyewatering quote for moving the gas to the anchor locker and have considered that I could achieve both objectives with a spirit stove. However, I know nothing about them! Can anyone please explain the pros and cons - and if they are good, why don't more people use them?

Many thanks

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[Ohdrat]

In the smaller boat I would say go for anyting but gas.. The Origo Spirit stoves are apparently good .. I have just had the ancient gas stove and gas installation taken out of Charisma (CO26) .. low freeboard means that it is well nye impossible to comply with safe gas installation principles.. I have seen an interesting alternative to a gas locker with outboard drainage.. bracket fixed on stern deck to hold gas cylinder with a bucket over it to prevent knocks etc.. this I believe passed the gas safety thing.. I have never been a great lover of gas and am now installing a Taylors Ideal K (the smallest of the Taylors parrafin stoves.. 2 burner hob and no grill..) <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.chillington-marine.co.uk/prod02.htm>Blakes Lavac Taylors</A> these are made to order apparently and they are currently doing a factory run for the Ideal K.. which is the alternative to the Origo 2 burner which is alcohol ..

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[StugeronSteve]

I had an Origa twin burner spirit stove in my Dehler 25. Very good to use although you did get some spirit smell from the thing in hot weather when lighting could also be interesting, the vapourised spirit would launch an immense flame unless the thing was regulated right down. Other draw backs are difficult simmering, blackening of pans and the pain of refuelling. Despite the moans I would still have one on a smaller boat and kick the gas bottle into touch. I will look at replacing the gas cooker in my present boat with a diesel alternative when funds are available.

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[paulstevens]

If you are on a tight budget

and dont need to cook underway how about one of the new small portable gas cookers with integral cannisters? Quite a few chandlers have these now but Argos were doing them last month for £15.99 complete with case.

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[Neraida]

Re: If you are on a tight budget

Well said Paul! We have 2 of these little chappies, from argos too. They work really well, and the pizo ignition makes them super easy. Pack up really well in their placcy cases, and the pan rest design (kinda notched) means that a passing wake or jolt in a marina is no problem....

The canisters are also a Camping Gaz design, available almost everywhere, but you can get a really good deal from "agros" if you buy a pack of 4 when you buy the stove. They work for 90mins at full power which is very very high so we get over 2 hours realistic use.

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[ccscott49]

Portable gas for a small boat. Installed gas for a big one. IMHO

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[vyv_cox]

IMHO, gas is no more dangerous than either spirit or paraffin stoves. Having cooked on Taylor's stoves for 30 years in camper vans, and illuminated/heated said vans with a Tilley, I have accumulated a good collection of bad occurrences. Care and experience is needed to light them, they flare mightily if the pressure is turned on too soon or rapidly and there is a long-term smell problem, particularly on soft furnishings, like insulating carpet. When I took my Mountain Leadership Cerificate many years ago I was told that anyone who left a primus burning in a tent unattended would automatically be failed. Says something about reliability?

I read only about a month ago that one of the primary causes of boat fires in marinas is spirit stoves. My experience of these is far less than of paraffin but I have seen a few flares as big as with primus stoves. A major problem seems to be that the flame is often invisible. No doubt skill in using one will be built up as it is with paraffin, but each has an inherent concern.

With gas, no doubting that there can be big problems. The difference is that no skill is required of the user, only the installer/maintainer. This responsibility can be passed to someone else if the necessary skill is not held by the owner. Making a gas locker that complies with rules and regs is not beyond the capabilities of most people and, once set up correctly, the advantages of gas far outweigh the dubious advantages of liquid fuels.

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[RS123]

Thanks to all for your replies! For the time being, and given the limited use the cooker will initially have, I feel a trip to Argos coming on!



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[pwc51]

I used an Origo stove on the Hunter Delta and Sonata before that - never had any problems. The odd trip to the supermarket in France proved a cheap source of Meths!

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[Neal]

Don\' t you still need safe storage?

I recall reading that even a refill cannister for a gas cigarette lighter is explosive enough to be a real safety risk.

So I'm not sure that the Argos solution achieves the objective without other changes.

But maybe I reda wrongly?

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[Guest]

We stripped all the gas kit out of our boat some four years ago, and installed a Taylors paraffin cooker. Best thing we ever did. Apart from cooking brilliantly, it also acts as a great cabin heater during chilly months.
Personally after seeing what a gas explosion can do to a boat and its crew - the skipper of the Lord Trenchard lost a leg - I'd never have it on board. Its silent odourless and deadly. Unless you air pump the bilges regularly, it can accumulate in a sufficient amount to cause an explosion.
Leave a primus in a tent.....?????? I wouldn't leave any lit cooker unattended either in a tent or a boat - straight forward common sense I would have thought.

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[penfold]

I'd have thought using a cooking stove as cabin heating was a good way to give yourself carbon monoxide poisoning, which is also, as you say, 'silent odourless and deadly'. To avoid it you need loads of ventilation, which tends to defeat the object of the exercise, which is to keep the warm air in the cabin, rather than letting it escape outside. A proper cabin heater with plumbed-in chimney/exhaust is much safer. Having said that, I agree with most of what you've said about gas for cooking; the price of the convenience is being very strict about gas lockers and keeping the valves off when not in use.

Also, when I've used primus stoves, I've found that they heat stuff so much quicker; however this may just be a comment on the relative quality(or lack thereof) of the gas stoves I've encountered.

ditto the comment about naked flames in tents/boats; don't tempt fate! There are enough hazards out there with out making any more.

cheers,

david

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[Guest]

Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. As you quite rightly say, a primus (vapourised paraffin) does indeed produce more BTU's and therefore boils (say) water much quicker. Whilst cooking or boiling a kettle, the residual heat warms the cabin very quickly. I am not in any way advocating using a cooker as an unventilated/unattended cabin heater. In any event, it is never ever used without some form of ventilation, but still manages to warm the cabin very well.

If you want to see what a gas explosion can do to a boat, take a look at:
http://www.sfdetection.com/areapage.asp?pageid=13&areaid=4

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[vyv_cox]

So you never put the kettle on the gas stove at home and leave it unwatched? I suggest that this is the norm for domestic gas users. Why should we behave totally differently on a boat, or in a tent for that matter. A correctly installed and maintained gas stove is perfectly safe to leave unattended, assuming a flame fail safe device to be fitted. Not true of spirits or of paraffin.

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[Spyro]

I had a very similar problem when I had my boat surveyed and now have an Origo 2 burner, the advantages are that it is very simple to install and use I have freed up locker space which is a big plus on a small boat I have no trouble lighting it the secret is to use a gas lighter with a long spout the kind you can buy in asda for about 2 pounds and stick it right down inside so it is just above the gauze of the fuel container. Disadvantages are the smell and the blackening of pans.
overall I would say it comes down to what your requirements are, for day sailing and the odd weekend away they are Ideal. Not sure if spirit burning gives off carbon monoxide when burning though as origo actually make a heater for the pupose of cabin heating, perhaps someone with a degree in chemistry could enlighten me.
one more thing...I've never heard of a boat blowing up because of a spirit stove!!

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[Guest]

No we don't put the kettle on the gas stove at home - why? Because we have an electric kettle, as have most people in the Uk whether or not they have a gas hob. As for leaving any kind of naked flame unattended in either a tent or on-board a boat, then I would with respect suggest that you're simply asking for trouble. There is every reason to be extra vigilant on a boat, far more flammable material for one thing. BTW - when was the last time either a spirit or paraffin cooker caused a boat to blow up with serious injury to the skipper and the total destruction of the boat?

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[penfold]

One good reason for watching the kettle boil (I can't believe I just wrote that; what a cliche!) is that on a boat the gas supply is from a high pressure cylinder via a pressure regulator. These can and do fail; I know cos I've seen it happen, and the stove did a good impersonation of a roman candle. After brief pause while I soiled myself, I managed to turn everything off and avoided anything worse than a singed headlining. This is admittedly an unusual occurrence, but its normally the unusual that causes problems.

This is in contrast to domestic gas supplies where the gas to your house is already at low pressure, and is carefully controlled by Transco (Ha! that's a laugh, too. thieving capitalist swine. Nationalise the lot I say.)

cheers,

david

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[rex_seadog]

Hi Richard
Interested to see from a couple of posts that you have bought a Delta. Join the club - ours is a twin keel version. PM me if you need any other info.

Our gas bottle is located in the anchor locker and I'm surprised that relocating it there would be expensive. Assuming you layout's the same as ours the anchor locker must be nearer to the cooker than the cockpit locker. A fairly straightforward pipe run under the port side for'ard bunk and through the bulkhead to the cooker via an isolator behind the sink. Tell me if perhaps this is too simple to satisfy current regulations. On the other hand maybe I don't want to know!

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