Gas on a Contessa 26

[mikemonty]

Hi, I posted this question on the Contessa 26 website, but I have limited time before I need to finish the project and I think the question applies to any boat with a pronounced counter like the Contessa:
Anyone got a gas locker in their lazarette in a small boat?
I want to install a gas locker but I doubt I have enough "headroom" in the lazarette (haven't measured or offered up a bottle, but since headroom vanishes to nothing the further back you get.....)
So how to get a locker in there and a gas "drain" out through the transom? Any experience gratefully received.
regards to all,
Mike

 

[nickfabbri]

Ditch the gas and buy a spirit stove. It costs less than a new gas locker and there are no drills involved

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Mike, I had this problem with the locker I made, ( dont know if you seen it or not?) it will take two of the medium size camping gaz bottles.
To get over the problem of getting a fall on the drain outlet what I did today infact, was to mount it in the lazerette but with the top edge of it high enough that when the lazerette lid is down, it doubles as a lid for the gas locker, follow me?
If I remember correctly, your lazerette is round lid, which would mean you might only get one bottle in at a time, also like me the lazerette wont be much use for anything else as my gas locker occupies most of the oppening into the lazerette.
Cheers, C_W.

 

[mikemonty]

Thanks Nick,
Had a pressurised stove in previously (bad experience, spent most of last spring rebuilding the GRP headlining, ('nuff said)
I don't have a problem with spirit per se, I just like the instantaneousness (is that a word?) of gas.

 

[mikemonty]

Hi Eamonn,
You afloat yet? that sikaflex must have cured by now.
You remember correctly, I could do as you suggest, but taking out that amount of access area from the "dustbin lid" hatch would be fairly unworkable.
If that's the solution - then I may have to rethink.
Regards,
Mike

 

[Chrissie]

Coincidently, I am putting the gas in my Contessa 26 on Monday, The gas bottles come in 15 inch high and 12inch high, the water lin is half way up the transom, so there is not enough room to get a gas bottle in with the bottom above the water line to drain out.

I have thought of three solutions,
You could build a nice gas locker and have it on deck next to the mast, the pipe coming out the top and then back down into the boat,
Or stand a gas locker on the space at the back, where it doesnt obstruct the tiller, bolted onto the deck, but still gas proof,
or third,
build a box that is sealed, with two sections, one side big enough for the bottle, and the other section for the pipework to come back down through the base into the boat.
So both sections will have an outlet at the bottom, one side for the gas poipe into the boat, and the other section with the pipework to discharge through a skin fitting.
Cut a hole in the rear deck, again where it doesnt interfear with the tiller, fibre glass or epoxy the box into the hole, so that the bottom of the box is just above the waterline. neaten up the join, make a lid which covers both sections, with a catch on it. This box will have the top five or six inches coming through the rear deck bit, (Contessa 26 owners will understand)
This is the method I shall use, but for now I am going to put all the pipework in place, launch her this week and see where the actual waterline is, before fitting the box.

When I stand the gas bottle in the lazerette

 

[mikemonty]

Thanks Chrissie,
Option 1 - locker beside mast - OK, but I bought the boat because I liked its lines - don't even like my own kids on the deck! (Joke!)
Option 2 - the locker becomes a cosmetic thingy (as in option 1) though it's a bit more out of the way - but still not aesthetically there yet.
Option 3 - I think you are on the right lines, I'd still prefer the dam* thing to be hidden, though if the boat wasn't on a swinging mooring 25 miles frome home I'd go for it now.

I guess I'm looking for an equivalent for a Tardis for gas bottles.

Not sure if there are any regs that forbid it, but I don't mind the drain exiting the locker ABOVE the bottom. (I have no problem with the potential for a "pool"of gas in the locker, as long as it can't overflow,is above its flammable limit and has no ignition source.

Maybe if I disguise the "proud" section of your proposed gas locker as something gnarly and boaty - a windlass? (another weak joke)

Thanks, Mike

 

[kds]

Crikey Chrissie - what a lot of invasion into the hull/deck of a beautiful boat. Just for gas ? Use a spirit stove and have 25% of the weight.
Ken

 

[Fascadale]

Hi

I'm facing the same problem on my boat ( similar size, vintage and basic design)

I'm going for the spirit stove option.

Good sailing

 

[mawm]

I have a 28 footer and have the same problems trying to fit a gas locker. I'm thinking of doing it the American way and just having the bottle hanging on the pushpit in a wire basket. The problems as I see it are degredation of the regulator and pipes due to UV and salt exposure and protection from collisions.

 

[Bilgediver]

We have two Contessa 26 in our marina and both went the Origo 3000 spirit stove route .


John

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
Coincidently, I am putting the gas in my Contessa 26 on Monday, The gas bottles come in 15 inch high and 12inch high, the water lin is half way up the transom, so there is not enough room to get a gas bottle in with the bottom above the water line to drain out.

I have thought of three solutions,
You could build a nice gas locker and have it on deck next to the mast, the pipe coming out the top and then back down into the boat,
Or stand a gas locker on the space at the back, where it doesnt obstruct the tiller, bolted onto the deck, but still gas proof,
or third,
build a box that is sealed, with two sections, one side big enough for the bottle, and the other section for the pipework to come back down through the base into the boat.
So both sections will have an outlet at the bottom, one side for the gas poipe into the boat, and the other section with the pipework to discharge through a skin fitting.
Cut a hole in the rear deck, again where it doesnt interfear with the tiller, fibre glass or epoxy the box into the hole, so that the bottom of the box is just above the waterline. neaten up the join, make a lid which covers both sections, with a catch on it. This box will have the top five or six inches coming through the rear deck bit, (Contessa 26 owners will understand)
This is the method I shall use, but for now I am going to put all the pipework in place, launch her this week and see where the actual waterline is, before fitting the box.

When I stand the gas bottle in the lazerette

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely the best safest option is the stand on deck job at aft rail ... no need for a box or fitting drains etc. As long as it is far enough aft - it will drain naturally overboard ...

Even in a following wind - a gas locker that drains at waterlin through transom - such as I have will have gas lifted and brought back toward you ... but by time it gets to you should be diluted down in the air ... The most gas you ever get really is when you change bottles and that's soon dissipated.

Regulator and piping can be protected by neat covers ... OR even go to a Caravan shop and buy a gas rack and box ... to fully enclose except for one side that is open to allow air to circulate ... that can be fitted to aft rail side.

 

[mikemonty]

Right, still not happy with the (perfectly sensible) suggestions so far, I don't like flammable liquids and I don't like carbuncles on the deck so a plan forms...
There must be a bit of dead space just forward and to each side of the lazarette lid - hopefully big enough to slide a small gas locker in.
IF.... I can suspend a sealed locker up under there with flexible drain, breather and gas connections so it can be brought to the lazarette opening for access - we might be cooking with gas!
Anyone see any flaws?

 

[Gunfleet]

My Nich 26 was originally designed to have a gas bottle in the lazarette. The drain holes are too small to meet modern regs. I think they have to be something enormous like 1" now. I have a Taylor's stove on the boat but like you, am fed up with trying to clean the headlining.

 

[mikemonty]

Ah, this wasn't just soot - I had a massive "flare up" where I couldnt get the thing depressurised or shut off because I couldn't get near enough!

I ended up taking off the substantial amount of blistered gelcoat and fairing up with epoxy/fibres followed by epoxy/microballoons then paint.
It's never fun sanding overhead!

How was your original gas locker situated?

 

[kds]

"I don't like flammable liquids"

Do you mean you prefer flammable gases ?
Origo are unpressurised and can be extinguished by water.

You know it makes sense !
Ken

 

[Gunfleet]

It was literally what you are describing, just the lazarette (such as it is), pretty well air tight once you put the locker lid on it except for two holes to allow any escaped gas to stream out of the counter. It was so shallow I could only ever get those stubby blue camping-gaz bottles in there. I think it would be acceptable with one of those bubble indicators and a remote switch, I just didn't want gas aboard at all because of the extremely deep and inaccessible bilge.

 

[mikemonty]

Yep,
flammable gases can dissipate, flammable liquids will - should they end up there (leaking container etc) - just stay in lowest point they can find.
OK, gas, in large concentrations, will gather in the bilge, but partial pressure ensures that it will dissipate away in short order.
The heavier vapours of a liquid could concievably lurk in the bilge and not be detected by the Mk1 nose, whereas gas will fill the available space and it SMELLS. If you can't smell it, it's likely not reached its flammable level, if you CAN smell it, don't switch anything not intrinsically safe on, and vent.
So you might have a gas leak while sailing or motoring, when is that going to happen? When someone is down below using the stove and can smell the leak.

When you aren't using the cooker it should be isolated at the bottle anyway, so leaks will not happen when unattended and will be quickly discovered.

Gas is just like any other "energy delivery system", keep the genie in the bottle when you don't want it. And make sure it is directed WHERE you want it when you do.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Hi Mike.
Hoping to be in this week end.
I really think you could get away with the type of locker you discribed a few posts ago, the one that would fit to one side of lazerette, if you used a couple of those dumpy camping gaz bottles.
I only used one full bottle and a little bit from the second for the whole of last season, and believe me I like my tea, so kettle was practically always on, well in anything below a force 3 sea.
If you want to have a look at my locker, I am down there most of this week.
BTW your stern end cant be any shallower than mine, my transom is only about 14" deep.
Cheers C_W.

 

[graham]

Sounds like you will need to use the Camping Gaz 904 bottle .Only problem is that they dont hold much and cost about £15 for a refill. The next bottle up is double the size and only costs an extra pound for a refill /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

904 I dont have one to hand but from memory would guess the bottle is about 8 inches high.It would probably last you about 4 or 5 weekends if cooking for 2 or 3 people.


I think your previous bad experiences with pressurised petrol /parrafin stoves have put you off Spirit stoves.The modern Origo is completely unpressurised Lights instantly not needing pre warming etc as you used to.

The fuel is soaked into cotton wadding inside the tank. After having one for 8 years we are very happy with its performance and especially happy with how safe it is.