Gas Canister Locker

[Phil_A]

Hi,

I have recently had a Boat Safety Scheme survey completed on the boat I have just bought and it identified that the locker for the 3kg gas canister does not meet the fire regulations.

My local chandlers does not stock lockers for gas canisters so I have checked online and the only one I have found is appox £140+vat which seems extremely expensive for a steel box. Can anyone confirm whether this is the going rate or am just not looking in the right place? Thanks.

Rgds

Phil

 

[pvb]

The locker doesn't have to be metal, it can be fibreglass or wood lined with fibreglass. If you already have a locker, can't it be modified to meet the BSS requirements?

 

[Phil_A]

I’d been told it is acceptable to line it with GRP but thought it would probably be easier to buy a purpose made locker and bolt it in the same place, although if the price I found is right I'll definitely look in to lining the current wooden box with GRP.

Rgds

Phil

 

[VicS]

Calor sell a fibre class locker Calormarine I have not checked the price though but i am sure it is less tha what you quote.

If you are not familiar with the BSS yourself you'll find it HERE Section 7 is the section on gas installations

 

[Phil_A]

Hi
That's the website I found and the cheapest on there is £159 inc vat! Think I'll talk to my marina to see if they can line the current locker with GRP for less.

Rgds

Phil

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not just plain vanilla GRP - has to be fire resistant for 30 minutes.

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Phil, and welcome to the WBW forums.

The problem with placing your gas bottle in a container and then stowing that container into a locker is that you will need to hook up a drain pipe that will take any leaking gas outside the hull, and as the gas is heavier than air the drain must run down and out.

Also just lining a locker with fibreglass may not be answer, as access should be from the top only and it still needs a drain that runs down and outside the hull.

Many mount a container on deck (most near the mast) or fixed to the push pit rail.

I Hope this helps.

Avagoodweekend.

 

[pvb]

Really?

[ QUOTE ]
Not just plain vanilla GRP - has to be fire resistant for 30 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]Don't know where you got that idea - it doesn't say that in the BSS!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Really?

I quote...

Some protection against gas cylinders overheating can be achieved by ensuring that any gas cylinder locker or housing has a fire resistance of 30 minutes. There are several accepted ways of achieving this fire resistance for cylinder lockers or cylinder housings:

• they must be constructed of metal at least 0.9mm (0.03ins) thick, with continuously welded or brazed joints
• they must be made of fibre reinforced plastics (FRP) of minimum thickness 5mm (0.2ins)
• they must be made of materials with a fire resistance of 30 minutes, in accordance with BS 476-20. [7.4]

(from here)

 

[pvb]

Well-meaning, I suppose...

[ QUOTE ]
I quote...

[/ QUOTE ]I suppose you were well-meaning, but you really need to check what you're quoting is correct. You've quoted from the 2002 BSS rules, which you'll note are prefaced with " This 2002 edition is the essential online resource concerning the Boat Safety Scheme and its requirements for non-private boats on the UK's inland waterways. For BSS information concerning privately-owned boats go to the 2nd edition BSS Essential Guide 2005." The 2005 rules, which VicS linked to in an earlier post, contain nothing about fire resistance.

 

[Phil_A]

Hi oldsaltoz,

Thanks for the welcome. Think I may have confused the issue using the terms container and locker interchangeably, there is only the one item which currently is attached to the structure of the boat and has all the relevant overboard vents top and bottom with a lid for access etc. The only problem is the fact that the material the gas container is made from does not meet the material requirements. It is painted wood rather than the 5mm FRP or 1mm metal. The BSS inspector stated it would possible to line the current wooden container with 5mm FRP to meet the requirement. However, I thought it may be easier and provide a better and more cost effective solution simply to replace the current container with a purpose built container (and use the existing overboard vent pipes etc). Its just that £159 seems a large amount for what is essentially only an FRP box. If that is the going rate then I’ll investigate getting the current container lined with FRP instead.

Thanks again.

Phil

 

[VicS]

Re: Well-meaning, I suppose...

[ QUOTE ]
The 2005 rules, which VicS linked to

[/ QUOTE ] But what they do say in 7.4.5/R is [ QUOTE ]
Is the cylinder locker constructed of material of the required thickness?
Determine the construction material of the cylinder lockers and estimate
the thickness of the cylinder lockers.
Cylinder lockers must be constructed of materials that are either
the same material and thickness of the surrounding hull structure; or,
metal of minimum thickness of approximately 1mm; or,
FRP of minimum thickness of approximately 5mm (1/4 in) thickness.
Note – a combination of wooden cylinder-lockers lined with FRP of
a lesser thickness than 5mm (1/4 in) may be estimated as equivalent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if FRP is fire resistant or fibre reinforced plastic

 

[Phil_A]

Re: Well-meaning, I suppose...

The BSS inspector stated that a lining of standard fibreglass would meet the requirement so I guess FRP stands for Fibre Reinforced Plastic rather than fire resistant.

"Note – a combination of wooden cylinder-lockers lined with FRP of
a lesser thickness than 5mm may be estimated as equivalent."

Problem is guaging what combination of wood and FRP thickness would be deemed to be "equivalent".

 

[VicS]

Re: Well-meaning, I suppose...

[ QUOTE ]
The BSS inspector stated that a lining of standard fibreglass would meet the requirement

[/ QUOTE ] The ones offered by Calor marine are made of "fire retardant GRP". It would seem more logical as ordinary GRP burns very readily but whow I really had not realised how expensive they are.

My locker is made of 9mm ply. It would not be possile to line it and still get a bottle in so I was wondering about encasing it in sheet aluminium.

 

[pvb]

A couple of mm...

I'd have thought that a couple of mm of fibreglass on top of the wooden locker would be sufficient to satisfy the 2005 BSS requirements.

 

[Searush]

Re: A couple of mm...

I doubt that many 70's & 80's boats meet the current regulations. So what, I wonder.

Are the rules retrospective, and if your boat caught fire would you want to hang around on board long enough for the cyclinders to explode?

Just another opinion - happy to hear others. Point is, my gas locker is wooden & has not been a problem over the 20 years I have had the boat or the 35 years since it was built. I don't see it as a major risk or even a high priority at the moment.

Gas leaking is another matter - MUCH more likely to happen, so I am pleased to say my locker is properly drained over the side from the bottom. Access is from the front, but the door has a deep sill so that the drain will work (if it is not blocked anyway!)

 

[Phil_A]

Re: A couple of mm...

I agree with the points you make, even with a BSS compliant container I would take the gas canister out and sling it overboard if I ever had a fire anyway. The problem is that, having a motor cruiser at Cardiff, if I want to cruise from the Bristol Channel anywhere past Gloucester or Bristol on the inland waterways then having a BSS compliance certificate is mandatory!!!!!

 

[Searush]

Re: A couple of mm...

Right, that's it then - stay in salt water!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Well-meaning, I suppose...

PVb,

Apologies for misleading info. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I'm not sure that the the BSS, though, intends Phil should build a flammable gas locker! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[BSSOffice]

Re: Well-meaning, I suppose...

Hi all,
Lining out the locker in glass fibre is one option and it is possible to source a fire resistant resin for added assurance.
Other people have visited a local stainless steel fabricator and had made up a stainless inner box, I have heard of costs for doing this much less than the ££ quoted above, but it depends on circumstances and design obviously.

BTW People visiting inland waterways can often do so without a certificate on a short-term registration/licence. Some authorities want such a purchase made in advance.