Garmin and Navionics Joke Shop

[Irish Rover]

I was trying unsuccessfully to pair my Navionics app with my Garmin GPS Map 820xs chartplotter in order to get an AIS overlay. So in my infinite naivety I thought I'd surely get a solution if I contacted both Garmin and Navionics. In fairness both answered. The gist of both replies - my chartplotter isn’t compatible with Navionics and both even suggested I contact the other for more information. In a follow up email with Garmin they referred to my plotter as a "legacy unit". This is the same plotter I purchased new 5 years ago and which is still being sold in the US and UK at prices ranging from $1,400 to £1,660. Do I need to mention that Garmin and Navionics are effectively the same company. Only 3 days ago I was able to get an update online for my plotter - you'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to include whatever minor change is necessary to enable it to talk to an app belonging to the same company.
I really like using my Garmin plotter and I pay my annual subscription to Navionics as a backup and for planning at home. However I'm pee'd off about this nonsense because I'm sure they could fix it very easily. I'm also pee'd with them for each passing the book to each other when they're one and the same and extra pee'd with Garmin for telling me my expensive purchase is now a legacy unit.
If anyone thinks this is rant over - dream on.

 

[lustyd]

Do I need to mention that Garmin and Navionics are effectively the same company

No, they are very purposefully "effectively different". They are arms length on purpose in order to not destroy the Navionics business or show favouritism with the parent company. I kind of agree with them it's a legacy unit, the current current range does support Navionics charting but that's a recent addition, and 5 years old is pretty old in the world of modern electronics. It's not ideal but it is the way it is, you can keep a plotter for longer but they are not obliged to support it, and this leads to faster innovation as resources are focussed better.
The way to approach this is to work out how you get AIS data on your app. Don't assume anything, just look for the supported solution to get NMEA data out to the app. This will likely involve WiFi, in the B&G world my plotter broadcasts all the NMEA data on the network which includes wifi to my phone for Navionics, it's not direct integration to the plotter that does this, although they do have some integration.

 

[Sandy]

I have an even more ancient and discontinued Garmin GPSMAP 740, popped the card with the chart in my PC with Garmin Express, and it advised me that the chart was, 'ever so slightly' out of date (well 10 years). After a few attempts at downloading an updated chart, £140, I contacted Garmin Support and a update was posted out. Always had excellent support from Garmin.

Not a fan of Navionics, just don't like the way it looks.

 

[Irish Rover]

No, they are very purposefully "effectively different". They are arms length on purpose in order to not destroy the Navionics business or show favouritism with the parent company. I kind of agree with them it's a legacy unit, the current current range does support Navionics charting but that's a recent addition, and 5 years old is pretty old in the world of modern electronics. It's not ideal but it is the way it is, you can keep a plotter for longer but they are not obliged to support it, and this leads to faster innovation as resources are focussed better.
The way to approach this is to work out how you get AIS data on your app. Don't assume anything, just look for the supported solution to get NMEA data out to the app. This will likely involve WiFi, in the B&G world my plotter broadcasts all the NMEA data on the network which includes wifi to my phone for Navionics, it's not direct integration to the plotter that does this, although they do have some integration.

I'm not sure how much you know about the Garmin/Navionics relationship but it's clearly more than I know. Still. Do you really believe they're totally arms length separate? I'd be amazed if they're not cooperating on R&D and product development. They are still issuing firmware updates for my plotter which is not what you'd expect of a legacy unit and, though I'm no expert on software [or anything else for that matter] I'd imagine it's well within their capability to include a patch to allow my plotter wifi to connect with the Navionics app or, more likely, an update to Navionics to allow it connect to the Garmin wifi.
Garmin have their own separate app of course in the form of Active Captain but it's very 20th century and next to useless.
Personally I won't be changing my plotter anytime soon. Every time I renew my Navionics subscription I ask myself do I really need it - next time the answer is more likely to be no because I can't access the full functionality as a result of having a plotter from Navionics sister company.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I haven't used Garmin hardware for any nautical use although I did use Navionics charts with Raymarine plotters. However I have used their stuff for cycling and a watch and the best I can say of it is that it's clunky and convoluted as is the Garmin connect app. If I were ever to venture into requiring navigational hardware again it wouldn't be Garmin.

 

[Sandy]

I haven't used Garmin hardware for any nautical use although I did use Navionics charts with Raymarine plotters. However I have used their stuff for cycling and a watch and the best I can say of it is that it's clunky and convoluted as is the Garmin connect app. If I were ever to venture into requiring navigational hardware again it wouldn't be Garmin.

Given the posts about the quality of Raymarine hardware on the forum over the last few months perhaps the clunky stuff works.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Given the posts about the quality of Raymarine hardware on the forum over the last few months perhaps the clunky stuff works.

Personally I never had any problems with Raymarine C series plotter and a E120 but if I was buying again it would be B&G from experiences on others boats.

 

[ylop]

They are still issuing firmware updates for my plotter which is not what you'd expect of a legacy unit

I'm surprised they call it a legacy unit if it is still in production. Perhaps they mean "legacy wifi technology" rather than the unit itself. However its really irrelevant what they call it - there was no Navionics link available when you bought it 5 yrs ago and navionics had no link when you bought your subscriptions previously so you are really complaining that they have not upgraded to add new functionality at no cost to you. There's nothing to stop them producing two models of the same product at different prices one with and one without the connectivity if they wanted. Indeed that is quite common in vehicles and even electronics - one set of hardware and the manufacturer just unlocks the capability you've paid for.

and, though I'm no expert on software [or anything else for that matter] I'd imagine it's well within their capability to include a patch to allow my plotter wifi to connect with the Navionics app or, more likely, an update to Navionics to allow it connect to the Garmin wifi.

there may be technical limitations. Not to say its not possible, but it may not be as trivial as you imagine.

Every time I renew my Navionics subscription I ask myself do I really need it - next time the answer is more likely to be no because I can't access the full functionality as a result of having a plotter from Navionics sister company.

yet you have renewed it every year until now despite not having the function.

However on a more constructive note:

Here's what you need to get AIS into navionics: https://www.navionics.com/media/Boating_app_AIS_Devices.pdf (the doc is dated 2019 so may be many more devices compatible now but the concept is the same).

 

[TSB240]

I assume you were hoping to get your grrrmin to connect wirelessly to another device running navionics? I also assume you have a seperate ais receiver or transponder device feeding the garmin?
Surely the easiest thing would be to get a yakka nmea to wifi transmitter to provide the ais signal direct to your device running navionics if it has WiFi?

YakBitz

I am in the process of updating my set up and I will hard wire my ais transponder to an old raymarine c120 under the hard spray hood to overlay ais.

I can use the same output to the c120 from the transponder connected in parallel to the yakka.

This will then provide wireless ais data to be overlaid on a car 10 inch screen single DIN android car stereo running navionics instead of the usual car street nav program.

The 10 inch car android systems are available with all you require including a reversing camera or a video input built in Bluetooth and WiFi etc Makes an ideal mini plotter with ais at the chart table and converts to radio or TV or whatever else you want on a tablet sized screen.

I personally think the open cpn overlay of ais and the anti collision display is way ahead of Navionics and will probably use the android version rather than navionics on the car display.

Pumpkin AA0717B - 10.1-Inch 1280*720 IPS Screen Single Din Android 11 Head Unit (2GB+32GB)

It fits in the same slot as the tired old cd player fitted 24 years ago with the new boat.

 

[jwilson]

Garmin hit me with similar "no longer support" on a really not very old plotter.

 

[Irish Rover]

@ylop - Navionics were in fact promoting the AIS overlay functionality as a strong selling point when I last renewed a few months ago. I didn't have an AIS transceiver then but it was in my plans and I assumed it would work with my Garmin plotter. "There’s nothing to stop them" doing anything they wish but whether it's good customer service or short-sighted folly is another issue.
"there may be technical limitations. Not to say its not possible, but it may not be as trivial as you imagine". - there may indeed and then again there may not be. Maybe Garmin or Navionics should assume I know enough to understand a bit more than "it's not compatible" and explain matters if there's a reasonable explanation.

 

[Irish Rover]

@TSB240 You clearly enjoy your gadgetry and I envy your knowledge and know how. As regards "the easiest thing" that, for me, would be if Navionics would do for me what it does for others and accept the AIS overlay from my plotter.

 

[Irish Rover]

I wonder is there any of you with a more than 5 year old NON- Garmin plotter doing what I want to do?

 

[ylop]

@ylop - Navionics were in fact promoting the AIS overlay functionality as a strong selling point when I last renewed a few months ago. I didn't have an AIS transceiver then but it was in my plans

and they do have AIS if you have the right way to get the data in. It’s not like they don’t publish the options (see link I posted). But you are where you are now - so your options seem to be: 1. Explore if any of the other phone plotters will do what you want (eg OpenCPN) or 2. Work out the best way to get your AIS data on a wifi format Navionics can work with.

 

[Irish Rover]

and they do have AIS if you have the right way to get the data in. It’s not like they don’t publish the options (see link I posted). But you are where you are now - so your options seem to be: 1. Explore if any of the other phone plotters will do what you want (eg OpenCPN) or 2. Work out the best way to get your AIS data on a wifi format Navionics can work with.

Thanks. @Refueler suggested a relatively cheap unit on another thread which I think will do what I want. However, that wasn't the point of this thread. My point was that Garmin and Navionics are making mugs of us and I'm surprised some people seem to think this is OK.

 

[Refueler]

I was trying unsuccessfully to pair my Navionics app with my Garmin GPS Map 820xs chartplotter in order to get an AIS overlay. So in my infinite naivety I thought I'd surely get a solution if I contacted both Garmin and Navionics. In fairness both answered. The gist of both replies - my chartplotter isn’t compatible with Navionics and both even suggested I contact the other for more information. In a follow up email with Garmin they referred to my plotter as a "legacy unit". This is the same plotter I purchased new 5 years ago and which is still being sold in the US and UK at prices ranging from $1,400 to £1,660. Do I need to mention that Garmin and Navionics are effectively the same company. Only 3 days ago I was able to get an update online for my plotter - you'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to include whatever minor change is necessary to enable it to talk to an app belonging to the same company.
I really like using my Garmin plotter and I pay my annual subscription to Navionics as a backup and for planning at home. However I'm pee'd off about this nonsense because I'm sure they could fix it very easily. I'm also pee'd with them for each passing the book to each other when they're one and the same and extra pee'd with Garmin for telling me my expensive purchase is now a legacy unit.
If anyone thinks this is rant over - dream on.

I really feel your pain .... too long companies such as Raymarine .. Garmin as example have been cashing in on boaters ...

Its same in many markets .. Cars ... Music Boxes ... you can literally pick any and you will find similar.

What irks me - is not only the matter of such as Garmin having Navionics - and not benefitting customers by integrating - but they will go to great lengths to make proprietary their gear to try and lock in customers to them only.
When most of the physical gear itself making up theirs is nigh on generic. They program it to lock out others.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks. @Refueler suggested a relatively cheap unit on another thread which I think will do what I want. However, that wasn't the point of this thread. My point was that Garmin and Navionics are making mugs of us and I'm surprised some people seem to think this is OK.

The unit is designed for us Boaters - by a Boater .....

I have no connection or gain from promoting the unit ... I am just a very satisfied user.

The designer is seller as well - so though his Forum - which is free to join - you have direct contact with the actual guy who builds / programs the units.

Its so good in fact - that I am considering another one to create a "Marine' network in my workshop / home so I can plan / use my gear while boat is tied up or stored.

 

[ChromeDome]

Not sure how much value this adds to the discussion, but my non wifi setup with a

• Lowrance HDS-10 Gen 1 (debut in 2008) running Navionics Platinum without being able (hardware shortcomings) to use all facilities, an
• Icom M506 VHF (receives AIS) and a
• Simrad AP with electro compass

-all share all data via NMEA2000, producing an AIS overlay on the plotter.

The Navionics app installed on Android devices lives a separate life - there is no connection between these universes so to use e.g. a route made by the autorouting feature on an Android, I need to export it, convert it and put it on an SD-card to insert in the Lowrance and finally import to its file repository.

And while fiddling with this Orca (based in Norway) came walzing sideways onto the scene.
£399 once to get their core w/GPS which will make all devices talk (bidirectional) to each other, add wifi capacility for all of the NMEA2000 data and devices, allowing tablets/phones to control AP's and what not. Their own global charting included and e.g. autorouting that factors in sail or mobo mode and weather. And a lot more.
Their feature development roadmap is on steroids - new stuff being added frequently.
First year included, then annual subscription if you want to get all features, but it also works without. They do indeed offer a display also in case you do not have a usable tablet. Rugged and really made for daylight use - but not cheap.

Might allow you to keep what you have (backup until you feel confident to dump), properly integrate and stop sponsoring Grrmin's and Navionics' pension plans (one subscription for the Android app and one for the card in the Lowarance)..