Galileo

[Guest]

For those who have been wondering what it is all about there is some interesting stuff at http://europa.eu.int/comm/energy_transport/en/gal_en.html
Read also the speech by Mrs Loyola de Palacio, Commission Vice President responsible for transport and energy as to why it is necessary.

 

[Guest]

United States of America v United States of Europe

And this is only the start.......................

 

[Guest]

We already have a generation who can't read; next will be a generation of navigators who can't read a map or chart.

Jonah Ludd

 

[steve_cronin]

Glad you picked that up Vic....

as it was the theme of my reply to an earlier posting on this topic. (One day, one day...)

In corrected Blairspeak you can be nationalistic if you're Welsh and demand a Welsh homeland and assembly. The same for the Scots (god bless em) It is also PC to strive towards a United States of Europe but to support the status quo by being proud to be British is somehow small minded and jingoistic.

That Galileo site reads as if the US GPS system never existed. The previous proponent of a POLITICALLY united europe Mr Adolf Schicklgruber was also fond of re-writing history by exclusion.

The emergence of European nationalism worries me.

One day, one day.

Steve Cronin

 

[Guest]

Re: United States of America v United States of Europe

I am surprised that at the EU v US attitude about Galileo. I prefer to take the line expressed in Navigation News which supports the view that it is the first satellite navigation and positioning system designed for civilian use, and "its everyday uses are multiple from radionavigation of individual cars to transport safety, not to mention the effects on the various commercial activities(bankiong scetor, geology, public works, energy etc)."
It is not see as competition for GPS or GNSS but complementary to them, particularly GPS.

 

[tome]

Re: United States of America v United States of Europe

Not surprised that it's seen as a 'them and us' issue, given the vagaries of Uncle Sam's trade policies (ask the steel industry) and mistrust of US long-term policy towards GPS. Of this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a consensus for Galileo.

I attended a Galileo conference a couple of years back where the Eurotechs discussed these issues as part of the justification for Galileo. They also presented proposals for access levels and pricing. To achieve the same accuracy as we can get from GPS now we would have to subscribe (=pay) which seems optimistic. To get survey level accuracy, you have to pay more etc.

You'll see from the applications that one of the targets is seismic surveys in oil & gas exploration, which is my patch. The use of DGPS is highly advanced and mature in this industry (together with RTK techniques for centimetre level accuracy), and I wonder what commercial benefit Galileo can offer apart from satellite augmentation. The one immediate benefit could be that we would no longer be subject to US DoD embargoes on export of GPS equipment (we get around this by buying Canadian receivers for certain countries!).

It's not an expensive project and one day we may very well congratulate ourselves on our autonomy, but let no one doubt that it is a Euro vs US issue

 

[Guest]

Re: United States of America v United States of Europe

Interesting. Does your industry use, or plan to use, EGNOS then? I understand this to be primarily for aero use, but that it can also provide accuracy better than DGPS for maritime use in European waters.

 

[Guest]

Cynicism ! An unpleasant way of saying the truth ?

My apologies to Cornishman as Galileo is probably a good system and is worth having if nothing else as a back up system and a form of competition to raise standards etc.

As I am sure as Steve C, our natural cynicism 'kicks in' whenever an EC joint kite mark thingy turns up explaining the benefits why 'joint togetherness' is the only thing that can posibly make anything work from unity and themeing of EU pleasure boat names to unification of house lettering on wheelie bins in type K9 households in sector 3 countries as defined by Brussels directive 123..

Some things work to the good of all l when done together other things don't. Self determination in ideas and people's used to be something to aim for but the reverse now seems to be the ideal.

Sorry about that. What was the question again ?

 

[tome]

Re: United States of America v United States of Europe

We're using WAAS in north america, EGNOS isn't scheduled to be operational until 03(?). The main advantage to us of wide-area augmentation systems is the potential improvement in geometry through additional geo-stationary satellites, which reduce the vertical errors. These don't really matter for marine users, but on land we need to establish heights to better than 1 metre which is marginal even with state-of-the-art DGPS and locally established reference stations. Vertical errors tend to be 2-3 times greater than horizontal. If these augmentation systems help achieve this benchmark, it could reduce our dependence on RTK solutions which require more expensive equipment, more skilled operators, better satellite visibility and have a vastly reduced baseline operating range (10 km).

 

[steve_cronin]

I\'m just going to continue getting lost on my fore

deck.

Well with accuracy of the basic system down to only a few metres that is indeed possible.

Who the hell WANTS (or NEEDS) this split hair accuracies unless that is we are talking about a "Boys' Toys" issue here of course.

If it gets me to within 100yds of the harbour entrance that's good enough for me.

But if anyone knows better?

Steve Cronin

 

[tome]

Re: I\'m just going to continue getting lost on my fore

Steve

In reply to Cornishman, I was discussing precision GPS which we use for survey applications. Not suggesting this has any relevance to leisure use, and probably of no interest outside professional applications except to the acedemic or feeble minded, neither of which I'm suggesting you belong to!

100 yards is fine by me too

TomE

 

[alant]

Re: Glad you picked that up Vic....

wot's us welsh done that you don't "god bless em" like the scots the Steve?

 

[steve_cronin]

Well this is a sailing forum....

so how was I supposed to know that you were referring to surveying use?

People buy all sorts of daft equipment for their floating plastic mistresses!

Steve Cronin

 

[tome]

Re: Well this is a sailing forum....

Quite right Steve, I was getting carried away. I think I'll buy something daft for the plastic mistress this weekend, have you tried one of those orbital mops that sell for around £35 at Nauticalia?

TomE