Gaff saddle/jaw help please

NUTMEG

NUTMEG

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www.theblindsailor.co.uk
Evening all. The leather on LJ,s gaff saddle is cracking and falling to bits and I need to replace it. Any advise on thickness and type of leather? Also what glue is recommended? Finally to avoid future problems what lubricant/preservative is best? Tallow or something more modern, less messy?

Thanks chaps

Steve
 
Sophie19 said:
Evening all. The leather on LJ,s gaff saddle is cracking and falling to bits and I need to replace it. Any advise on thickness and type of leather? Also what glue is recommended? Finally to avoid future problems what lubricant/preservative is best? Tallow or something more modern, less messy?

Thanks chaps

Steve
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No idea for the other questions but the last one is definitely tallow.
 
You can get chromed leather from a (traditional) sailmaker. Contact adhesive - industrial stuff, not B&Q plus copper tacks. Can't help on the lubrication front - sailmaker will know.
 
Tranona said:
You can get chromed leather from a (traditional) sailmaker.
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Am I right in thinking that's the greyish bobbly stuff used for chafe patches on sails (and also for the palms of some sailing gloves)? If so, I don't think it's the right thing for gaff jaws. They need stiff leather with a hardish surface, that will slide easily when greased. The right stuff is not particularly flexible, to fit it in place you soak it in hot soapy water for a few minutes, it goes floppy and you sew (or in this case glue and/or tack) it into position, then it stiffens up and shrinks slightly as it dries out. Subsequent wetting from rain or sea doesn't seem to re-floppify it. I've made a few anti-chafe guards around blocks and cranelines this way on Stavros, as well as the aforementioned gammon iron on Kindred Spirit.

The leatherwork on Stavros mostly gets linseed oil for protection rather than tallow, but gaff jaws need the greasiness.

Pete
 
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I've never found contact adhesive or any glue particularly satisfactory with leather. For permanent applications it needs to be either tacked on or stitched.

If you need to grease, then tallow is the stuff. However, if you are just looking to treat the leather then dubbin is what you want. You can get it for about £10 a tin at shoe shops, or £2 a tin at a farm suppliers.

I've also heard that Neats Foot Oil is very good for leather too, but don't have any experience of it.

Anyway, either Classic Marine or Traditional Boat Supplies (both east coast) will be able to supply it. If possible get the old leather off in one piece, as life is much easier when you have a template to work from.
 
Tallow and other animal fats are said to weaken leather with time, somehow damage the fibers. Fats can oxidize (get rancid) to fatty acids and get caustic. Also support fungal growth. Not that I remember exactly.
Less messy alternative is lanolin - still natural animal product, but chemically it's wax. Water-repelling. Bees wax also is nice for leather impregnation, at least mix of vaseline and wax was quite good at waterproofing mountain boots, this I can attest works :) But applied hot, must be melted. Also paraffin wax (synthetic candle wax) can be used with vaseline (that is 'petroleum gelly' in case I mix some names in English)
 
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Rossynant said:
Tallow and other animal fats are said to weaken leather with time, somehow damage the fibers. Fats can oxidize (get rancid) to fatty acids and get caustic. Also support fungal growth. Not that I remember exactly.
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Well, twenty years of tallow on the leatherwork on Kindred Spirit's gaffs hasn't dissolved them yet. Stavros also has massive (by yacht standards) parrel straps holding the topgallant and royal yards onto the masts, with leather coverings - we grease the masts with tallow (really low-grade stuff, with what feels like the odd scrap of connective tissue still in it, out of a canvas bucket and smeared on with an old sock :) ) to let them slide and I haven't heard of those needing constant replacement.

The other potions you suggest are no doubt fine for protecting the leather, but in this application it's as much or more about protecting the varnish on the mast, by letting the leather slide. I don't think any of them will do the job as well as tallow. A year or two ago, we had a slightly daft thread from a committed vegetarian who wanted to build a gaff rig with no leather and no tallow anywhere in it - and there was much discussion of how suitable these two particular substances are for the purpose and how difficult to substitute.

Pete
 
prv said:
Am I right in thinking that's the greyish bobbly stuff used for chafe patches on sails (and also for the palms of some sailing gloves)? If so, I don't think it's the right thing for gaff jaws. They need stiff leather with a hardish surface, that will slide easily when greased. The right stuff is not particularly flexible, to fit it in place you soak it in hot soapy water for a few minutes, it goes floppy and you sew (or in this case glue and/or tack) it into position, then it stiffens up and shrinks slightly as it dries out. Subsequent wetting from rain or sea doesn't seem to re-floppify it. I've made a few anti-chafe guards around blocks and cranelines this way on Stavros, as well as the aforementioned gammon iron on Kindred Spirit.

The leatherwork on Stavros mostly gets linseed oil for protection rather than tallow, but gaff jaws need the greasiness.

Pete
Click to expand...

There are various grades and some have a hard finish on one side which is the side you use for the bearing surface. I have spreader boots made from it and the strop for the kicker is covered in the same stuff. Also used it in the past for leathering oars.
 
All very helpful chaps. Much appreciated. The gaff saddle is galvanised mild steel so tacking the leather in please is no an option. The old one is glued with what could be a contact adhesive, although it is hard to tell. Out with the evostick I guess.
 
Sophie19 said:
The gaff saddle is galvanised mild steel so tacking the leather in please is no an option. The old one is glued with what could be a contact adhesive, although it is hard to tell. Out with the evostick I guess.
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If I was doing the job I would probably make it so it wrapped around onto the outside face and the opposite edges were then sewn / laced together with marline or thick whipping twine. But I like doing these things in a traditional way - I'm sure evostick will be fine :)

Pete
 
prv said:
The other potions you suggest are no doubt fine for protecting the leather, but in this application it's as much or more about protecting the varnish on the mast, by letting the leather slide. I don't think any of them will do the job as well as tallow.
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Yes, exactly. Waxes are good to protect the leather, impregnate when fitted. For lubrication later on anything can be used, really. Saw a teflon axle grease used for it...
So another thought - protecting varnish on the mast?
Mast, as any wood, can be soaked with oil, perhaps first a drying one for impregnation, then any mineral oil for lubrication, or olive oil was used too. Applied hot. And then polished a bit. Will not be shining so brightly, sure, but slippery like teflon bearing :)

Edit - I would not try oiling only on spruce, though...
 
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