Furling mainsail

[Fenders]

I have been looking around for a suitable boat and have found one that has a furling mainsail.
I do not know the make of the system, but it is original equipment, the boat is 15 years old and has been well looked after.

Does anyone have any experience of these systems?
The sails are also original and if I decide to buy the boat I would want these changed. Is it a diy job to remove them from the mast or does it require a specialist in rigging and masts?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Laurie]

Is it inmast furling?

There will be a s many views on these as there are boats.....
Mine for what its worth ? , and I'm not keen on inmast systems......is that I can't understand why you'd want to keep weight aloft at the very time you don't want it aloft ( when reefed?). Never mind access when things foul in the mast, or (there are some exceptions such as Vertech) less efficient sail cut, as often found, to facilitate such reefing systems.

(Now I must tie myself to a post, blindfold myself, and await "fire"!!)

 

[temptress]

I have been looking around for a suitable boat and have found one that has a furling mainsail.
I do not know the make of the system, but it is original equipment, the boat is 15 years old and has been well looked after.

Does anyone have any experience of these systems?
The sails are also original and if I decide to buy the boat I would want these changed. Is it a diy job to remove them from the mast or does it require a specialist in rigging and masts?

Thanks in advance for any input.

I have delivered many boats with inmast furling mains. They can be a blessing or hell. However we have decided that if we ever change Temptress our next boat will have a inmast furling mail as the advantages are worth having.

We used to subscribe to the why have a small roach and weight aloft brigade but recent experience has changed our minds. DON'T expect to race competitively with one but you can sail well with them.

 

[Tranona]

If it is an original equipment system such as a Selden then it should work OK. Be wary if it is an add on system - obvious if there is an extra extrusion riveted on to house the furling mechanism.

You will find many opposing views about such systems, but if your planned use is relaxed cruising then the pros outweigh the cons. Like everything you need to get the hang of operating them, but it is pretty straightforward. Removing the sail is easy (at least on a Selden). It has a normal halyard and the sail has a luff tape that runs in a slot in the mandrel/foil. Sailmakers now have plenty of experience making effective sails for the systems, so discuss the alternatives with your chosen sailmaker.

 

[silver-fox]

I have sailed for 7 years with both a roller reefing genoa and main. Prior to that I have used slab reefing and roller boom reefing, each for many years.

You have to accept that the roller reefed main is smaller than a conventional main with a full roach and battens but if it is original equipment the sail plan will be powerful enough to suit the boat.

The ability to easily reef from the cockpit is a great safety factor as you don't leave it late, but can adjust the sails a little and often to exactly suit the circumstances. What's more you are much more likely to let out a reef, knowing how easy it is to to re-reef when necessary. Coming into port is a doddle as the main can be fully furled and out of the way in no time.

Running down wind in light airs in a slop you can take advantage of the sail being loose footed and tighten the main sheet to immobilise the boom, slacken the outhaul and fly the sail in the style of a jib. This prevents the boom slatting and backwinding the main.

Do I race - no. Would I swap the main roller reefing for any other system - no definitely not!

Have I ever had a jam -no, and that's in thousands of miles, in all weathers, with an old baggy masin that will need replacing this year!

Most of my sailing is done two handed with my wife. When we are on solo watches, say at night, roller reefing means we can each reef as appropriate without waking the other.

Turning to your second question, how do you take down the sails? Its simple, a halyard holds the main up and the luff cord on the main is fed up the inside of a foil just like a roller reefing genoa (except it is inside the mast) when it is hoisted. To drop the main slacken the halyard, undo an easily accessed shackle holding the tack at the bottom of the sail, pull the main down and the undo the shackle on the main halyard at the head of the mainsail. Not quite as easy as a conventional main but can be done in 10 minutes easily.

As for the extra weight aloft, I really do not think it a significant consideration in my case. At a guess my mainsail weighs 25kg to which you can add another 10 kg for the roller reefing and that will be evenly distributed along thre height of the mast. My keel is 3800kg! Frankly the boats behaviour is more likely to be affected by whether or not I have full water and fuel tanks!!

Good luck, ignore the doomsayers

 

[Pete7]

Like Silverfox we have inmast furling. I wasn't sure but having seen how easy it is to use on the test sail we bought the boat. That was 7 years ago and should we ever change the boat I would view inmast furling mainsail as very high on my requirements.

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

I wouldn't fit in mast furling or buy a boat with it for two reasons. The sail is flatter and therefore gives less drive plus we had one jam on a 50 footer in Antigua Race week.

 

[pvb]

I wouldn't buy a boat without inmast furling. I've had it on my boats for the last 30 years and never had a problem with it. For shorthanded sailing, it's infinitely easier and safer. If I were racing, I'd probably take a different view.

 

[Fenders]

Thanks everyone for your replies, especially Silver Fox. I found your reply most in depth and very helpful.
I do not intend to race so that is not an issue. My main concern was effectiveness and ease of removing/refitting the mainsail. I agree that for me the extra weight aloft won't be an issue.
After I viewed the boat last week I had compiled some questions for the broker to pass on to the vendor. Hopefully I should receive a reply soon.

Thanks again

Fenders

 

[[2574]]

Fenders,

The thing with an inmast furling mainsail is being aware to best how to use it. There are some key points:

1) boom height when furling is critical. The best way I've found to know best boom height is, whilst moored and in benign wind conditions, to pull the sail out and then, with appropriate halyard and outhaul tension, raise and lower the boom in order to find the boom angle at which the sail is at its flattest. Ideally you will find a sweet spot where the sail appears just about flat. Then make a note of boom height and make it a practical measurement that you can quickly check whilst furling in anger. Mine is the base of the boom being a hand span above the spray hood grab rail. Having done this you then know where to position the boom when needing to furl in less than benign conditions.

2) you need enough halyard tension to pull the luff straight so that it furls flat around the foil in the mast

3) as you furl the mainsail keep a little tension on the outhaul so that the sail furls tightly around the foil

4) when unfurling keep an eye to the sail that it is coming out cleanly. If you've previously had a less than ideal furl (maybe in strong winds/rough water) and there are overlapping creases in the sail within the mast this may cause a reluctance of the sail to come out from the mast where the crease is, in this instance just furl the sail back in a turn and then it will pull out cleanly as the overlap is removed.

5) in benign conditions I tend to put a winch handle in the furling winch at the mast and wind the sail in from there, it bypasses all the line friction and also allows you to look up the luff as the sail is furled, this helps keep creases out of the sail.

6) my Selden rig furls the sail around the foil anticlockwise, that means it is best to furl with the sail slightly on starboard tack as the entry to the mast is then made easy. If on port tack when furling the sail has to pass around an acute angle which adds significant friction to the furl and leads to sail creases.

7) Make sure that the ratchet on the sail winch works effectively, in a gale you don't want the sail unfurling because the furling line loses grip on the winch drum.

In a decade of sailing with inmast I've never had a jamb, like all things it is about knowing how to use it.

Rob

 

[pvb]

Good tips there from Rob. I'd also add that, next time the sail is cleaned and serviced, it's worth having it treated with something like Seal'n'Glide, which will also reduce friction when furling, as well as helping to keep the sail clean for longer.

 

[TeamSpirit]

I have had the selden in mast furling for many years, it has jammed twice in that time the first as a result of my own actions or rather failure to keep the tension when rolling in and the second on an exceptionally hot day when the sail numbers delaminated enroute causing it to stick the sail together when furling in, both jams fixed easily. The mainsail is exceptionally easy to drop and raise to store sail or clean and as long as you focus some maintenance on the bearings top and bottom just as you would with your furling genoa it should be trouble free. Single handed it is great, and as described above has, like any sail disadvantages and advantages in light airs you can fly it which is useful but not a racing rig to have.

 

[Dockhead]

Many sensible comments.

Full battened mains are clearly superior in moderate conditions, which is probably why you don't see too many in-mast furling boats in the U.S. and Caribbean. You would never choose to race with in-mast furling. The roachy part of the mainsail provides a disproportionate amount of performance.

However, I have had both types, and I have come around to the conclusion that in places with stronger conditions, like the UK, in-mast furling will be better for most people. Once you start reefing the mainsail, the aerodynamic advantages of the roachy full-batten main start to lose their relevance. In-mast furling mains are vastly easier (and vastly safer) to reef, and can be reefed and unreefed in infinite degrees and without effort. That means that you are practically much more likely to have just the right amount of sail area up for the conditions of the moment, which is a big advantage in performance, compared to a boat with full batten main where it's just not practical to change the sail area several times in an hour unless you have a huge crew.

Another huge advantage is that you don't have to head up to reef or furl the main. In stormy conditions, it can be really tough, or even impossible to put the boat's head into the wind, and even in benign conditions it's a PITA and lost time. It also means you can change the mainsail area without furling the headsail.

Loose-footed in-mast furling mainsails without battens and with hollow leeches have much worse shape than regular full batten mains -- when unreefed. But once you start reefing them, in-mast furling mains just get better and better. They have a really good shape when reefed way down, which makes storm trysails unnecessary. This is really comforting in heavy weather. If besides in-mast furling, your boat is cutter-rigged, then you have built-in storm sails which can be rigged in less than a minute.

The last advantage of in-mast furling -- and this is not at all trivial -- is that the sail is ideally stored inside the mast. It stays cleaner and suffers less UV damage like that and generally lasts longer. No flaking the mainsail and struggling with sail covers.

When I bought my present boat, I considered the in-mast furling to be a drawback which I accepted reluctantly because I liked everything else about the boat so much. With time I have changed my mind and have grown to appreciate it, and would probably choose in-mast furling even if I had choice.

These comments apply to boats designed for them, with good systems like the Selden one. Avoid like the plague boats with add-on in-mast furling -- this is dreadful. A boat designed for in-mast furling will have a taller rig and more weight in the keel, to compensate for the greater weight aloft and loss of roach. The higher aspect ratio of such a rig partially compensates the loss of roach.

 

[Vara]

These comments apply to boats designed for them, with good systems like the Selden one. Avoid like the plague boats with add-on in-mast furling -- this is dreadful. A boat designed for in-mast furling will have a taller rig and more weight in the keel, to compensate for the greater weight aloft and loss of roach. The higher aspect ratio of such a rig partially compensates the loss of roach.

i have an add on mast furler, and have had absolutey no problems with it, on a heavy boat like mine I'm sure that the extra weight up the mast will make no significant difference to stability. With a fully battened furler the loss of area and roach is pretty negligible.

I bought the boat intending to strip the furler off, however having had it for five years I wouldn't be without it, ideal for short handing.