Furling Mainsail

[srah1953]

There were posts recently about problems with a furling mainsail. It was suggested that a bearing at the top of the mast needed to be lubricated once a year. Can this be done by dropping the mainsail or does it require someone to go up the mast?
Many thanks

 

[Mistroma]

I have a Selden mast with in mast reefing and it has lots of grease points.

1) Base of mast: Bevel gears plus 2 points for ball-bearings
2) On foil: Halyard swivel has one grease point (can be done near deck level before hoisting the sail)
3) Top of mast: Top swivel has one grease point (accessed though sail slot, right at top of the mast)

I think my mast is a mark II Type RB or RC.

Other systems might be different but it seems likely that at least one point will be at the top of the mast.

I wish that I had more detail on my Facnor LS180 foresail furling system as the halyard Swivel on that has just started locking under load. At least the mainsail system seems to be more maintainable. So far, nobody seems to know much about Facnor and how to dismantle or get parts.

 

[knuterikt]

There were posts recently about problems with a furling mainsail. It was suggested that a bearing at the top of the mast needed to be lubricated once a year. Can this be done by dropping the mainsail or does it require someone to go up the mast?
Many thanks

Don't know what make/model you have, would think you would find it in the manual

You find Selden's here http://selden.se/frameset.cfm?id=6611&randnum=195833762

Direct link to "Manual for Furling mast TYPE RB Mk II/RC Mk II" http://selden.se/_download.cfm?id=6611&download=4088801&filename=595-063-E.pdf
from the manual

Maintenance of the in-mast furling mast

Periodic Maintenance
Maintenance should be undertaken at least once a year. All bearings should be greased with GREASE (Part No.
312-501), a tube of which is delivered with the mast. Read the following instructions and Fig. 13: l.
When greasing bearings and gears, do not over-grease. A thin coating of evenly applied grease is sufficient.

TOP SWIVEL:
The bearing has a lubrication hole  marked ”GREASE” where the grease should be injected. Access through the
sail slot.

HALYARD SWIVEL:
Lubricate the swivel by injecting grease into the gaps  &  in the ring. This is best done through the upper
access hole.

IN-MAST FURLING MAST GEAR.
Remove the upper, oval plastic plug .
Lift the rubber boot and grease the upper shaft bearing .
Remove the lower oval plastic plug on a level with the Reefing winch.
Grease the bevel gears  and ball-bearings  & .
All grease points are shown in Fig. 13:1.

Complete Service
It is a good idea after some years use to dismantle the gear for thorough cleaning and re-greasing. The in-mast furling
mast is built so that servicing will be easy even after protracted use. Stainless steel thread inserts for all screw
fastenings ensure that corrosion is eliminated.

 

[srah1953]

Thanks for these. I don't have a furling main but had been thinking of changing boat and a number of them come with furling mains. Apart from concerns about them jamming, I'm no good on heights so having to lubricate something at the top of the mast would put me off.

 

[bluedragon]

Well I'm not sure when (if ever) our Selden unit was greased at the top of the mast! It works fine. If greasing was needed every few years, I'd get a rigger to do it at the same time as rig check. FWIW, we wouldn't be without a modern furling main - one of the best bits of kit ever for the short-handed sailor and as the years advance. I actively sought a boat with it. No regrets at all.

 

[srah1953]

Well I'm not sure when (if ever) our Selden unit was greased at the top of the mast! It works fine. If greasing was needed every few years, I'd get a rigger to do it at the same time as rig check. FWIW, we wouldn't be without a modern furling main - one of the best bits of kit ever for the short-handed sailor and as the years advance. I actively sought a boat with it. No regrets at all.

Is the key to stopping it jamming, to maintain tension on the outhaul as you furl the sail?

 

[Tranona]

Is the key to stopping it jamming, to maintain tension on the outhaul as you furl the sail?

Yes. Combination of keeping tension on outhaul, setting boom at correct height with topping lift or rod kicker and having a flat sail. Halyard tension can also influence the formation of creases which are what usually causes jams. Usual cure is to wind in tight and then slowly pull out.

In practice you soon get the hang of getting a neat furl and wonder what all the fuss is about.

 

[srah1953]

Yes. Combination of keeping tension on outhaul, setting boom at correct height with topping lift or rod kicker and having a flat sail. Halyard tension can also influence the formation of creases which are what usually causes jams. Usual cure is to wind in tight and then slowly pull out.

In practice you soon get the hang of getting a neat furl and wonder what all the fuss is about.

COOL

 

[Marsupial]

each to his own but it can get a bit difficult in a blow

1. keeping tension on outhaul,
2. setting boom at correct height with topping lift or rod kicker
3. having a flat sail.
4. Halyard tension can also influence the formation of creases which are what usually causes jams.
5. wind in tight and then slowly pull out.

Note: if you don't have point 3 then it wont work. a well made flat sail is essential, I found I was changing/re cutting sails fairly regularly to avoid jamming (1990's), as time went on sail makers have became more aware of the problems and the solution (2002). when it works its the best thing since sliced bread - but when it doesn't its pants . . .

OR

use a slab reef mainsail and just let go of the main halyard and catch the sail in a lazy bag! (2013) for me its the safest option.

 

[Daydream believer]

use a slab reef mainsail and just let go of the main halyard and catch the sail in a lazy bag! (2013) for me its the safest option.

+1
Performs a lot better as well

 

[bluedragon]

No right or wrong answer here. I feel perfectly happy that my sail will furl when needed - actually unfurling is more of an issue if it's become loose in the mast! It's never "not gone in" in my usage, and it's 13 years old now. For those that don't have this confidence, then drop bags are the answer, but for me that's a second-best, and I've had both. There is a lot of obsessing about worst-case scenarios on these forums, and things that are very unlikely to happen if you understand and maintain your gear properly, and know how / and how not to use it. It's perfectly reasonable for people to prefer non-furling systems, but it's wrong to suggest in-mast furlers are inherently unsafe or not fit for purpose...at least if they are modern purpose-built units (eg. Selden) and have sails that are not obviously blown-out.

 

[Marsupial]

No right or wrong answer here. I feel perfectly happy that my sail will furl when needed - actually unfurling is more of an issue if it's become loose in the mast! It's never "not gone in" in my usage, and it's 13 years old now. For those that don't have this confidence, then drop bags are the answer, but for me that's a second-best, and I've had both. There is a lot of obsessing about worst-case scenarios on these forums, and things that are very unlikely to happen if you understand and maintain your gear properly, and know how / and how not to use it. It's perfectly reasonable for people to prefer non-furling systems, but it's wrong to suggest in-mast furlers are inherently unsafe or not fit for purpose...at least if they are modern purpose-built units (eg. Selden) and have sails that are not obviously blown-out.

I had in-mast for over 15 years and found it OK ish for pottering around the English channel and without "obsessing" about worst case scenarios I have witnessed worst case scenarios ALL on well maintained modern gear - its not pretty! The problem is that you don't know when these failures will happen but when they do it seems to be at the most awkward time with most calamitous outcome (the definition of sailing?) - but I bought another. That said, I have also been on board when fully battened mains refuse to come down because those expensive batten cars break up so its not a one sided experience. However, those experiences led me to specify my next new boat with a slab main for ocean passages (without expensive batten cars). As I said previously when in mast is working its fine, when its not its pants. Unsafe and not fit for purpose? no, that's a bit strong, but on balance I think the slab system is a safer option; in my limited experience. But don't be put off in-mast, AMEL use it on the Super Maramu I see lots of them out here in the Med (there are two within 20 mtrs of me now and one moored in the bay) but I've NEVER seen one sailing - funny that!

 

[Daydream believer]

A chap on the Hanse forum is involved in chartering in Greece
He says that they were testing 2 identical new Bavs about 45 ft i believe.
One had inmast sails & the other did not
The speed difference was in the region of 2 knots
However, charterers want in mast furling so i think that is the choice they made

 

[Tranona]

A chap on the Hanse forum is involved in chartering in Greece
He says that they were testing 2 identical new Bavs about 45 ft i believe.
One had inmast sails & the other did not
The speed difference was in the region of 2 knots
However, charterers want in mast furling so i think that is the choice they made

That is a very sweeping statement - just to say one boat is 2 knots faster than another just because of a different sail.

Was out in my Bav this afternoon in a range of wind strengths. No problem exceeding hull speed - around 7.3 knots on a close reach, nor keeping up with a similar size Najad when the wind fell light.

There are so many variables that affect boat for boat speed, but if you get out of that mindset and instead consider what gives you acceptable passage times with the minimum of effort, you see things in a different light. Give me my in mast any time, particularly when single handing. I can handle my 37 alone as it is easy with its longish shallow keel to balance it to sail itself in light to medium conditions. No good if you want to out point other boats or squeeze the last little bit out of it, but very relaxing and comfortable.

 

[TQA]

However, charterers want in mast furling so i think that is the choice they made

That does not seem to be the case in the Caribbean with most if not all of the newish charter boats having slab reefing, monos and muiltis.

 

[bluedragon]

Just getting back to the original question (in case anyone is still interested), I have a Selden type RA in-mast furler. Reading the handbook today there is NO mention of lubricating the masthead bearing, only the halyard swivel and furling gear parts (all at deck level). So, I can't speak for other makes / types, but I don't have to go up the mast every year to squirt some grease into a bearing (thankfully).

On speed, well in-mast is a bit less powerful than a slab reefed main, but on modern AWBs this is probably a good thing! I've already swapped a big furling genoa for something a lot smaller, and when balanced by an in-mast main, I still get to hull speed in 10-12 knots of wind on a close reach. Why do I need more powerful sails, at least in "windy" UK waters??

Safety - the reason why my wife wanted in-mast was her horror of me hanging onto a boom in a rolling sea (yes, even with lazy jacks / drop bag). There's more than one way of looking at which is the "safer" option. But everybody to his own opinion.

 

[Fimacca]

I love my furling main! I can reef easy single handed in seconds............

 

[silver-fox]

Well I'm not sure when (if ever) our Selden unit was greased at the top of the mast! It works fine. If greasing was needed every few years, I'd get a rigger to do it at the same time as rig check. FWIW, we wouldn't be without a modern furling main - one of the best bits of kit ever for the short-handed sailor and as the years advance. I actively sought a boat with it. No regrets at all.

+1

 

[Ricd]

I have had in mast mail on two boats over 10 year and would not use anything else for cruising with only wife and me. Never had a jam. The trick is to remember when putting it away that effectively its a flag being rolled away. A "little" slack in main sheet and kicker so that the boom is not pulling the leach and she rolls away and out nicely every time. You can reef it in seconds to as little or as much as is necessary to maintain a flat (fast) boat and balanced sail plan. You can also easily reef on close reach to close hauled by scandalising the main (again creating a flag) to be rolled in.

In terms of speed, 70% of my power and the power of most AWBs is from the head sail so absolutely no problem achieving hull speed rapidly in modest winds.
In contrast, I have often watched boats with slab reefing mains reefing the furling head sail rather than the main as its easier and achieving a poor sail plan for the conditions.

So don't listen to all the in mast main sail horror stories. They work very well and nobody ever has to go onto the coach roof in ant sea state.

 

[Ricd]

Regarding greesing..on my Seldon all greesing is done at deck level before sails go on for the season. There is no need to lub anything up top.