furling jib or hanked on

[m1taylor]

Hi, My previous boat had a plastimo furling gear for the jib. It was a right pain at times as it's not good quality, and jammed on occasions. Also my sail suffered some UV damage on the edge. So on my current 17ft wooden boat the jib has brass hanks. So I was thinking is that so bad? Maybe we have all got too used to the convenience of furling jibs? So I am debating whether to stay old fashioned and use the hanks, or invest in good furling gear, which is no small price (would probably avoid plastimo now), and the sail would have to altered, taking all those nice brass hanks off. Any views on convenience vs cost re furling gear.

 

[Salty John]

Keep the hanked on sails! I cruised for many years with hanked on sails and I still like them. I've also cruised with roller furling and whilst it is a convenience I am always concerned about potential failure; and roller furling tends to fail dangerous, not safe. I find that with the development of roller furling people have become less adept at going forward and I now see more people leading everything back to the cockpit so they can even avoid going up as far as the mast. Progress, I suppose.

 

[Roach1948]

I had the same dilemma but what prevented me going the roller reefing way is the huge cost and the fact that I have a variety of jibs in very good condition that would have been made redundant.

The safety aspect often gets asked too, but as she is a small 22ft estuary yacht, in bad weather the crew can prepare a sail change under the forward hatch and not get too wet. On a 17fter I reckon the crew could probably reach the halyard and the hanks from the hatch - making the whole procedure safe and dry. I miss roller reefing when single handed, but being a fractional sloop its the large main that is the hassle (reefing).

Purely on cost, on a 17fter I would imagine making a small spitfire jib, or getting a 2nd hand dinghy jib, would provide you with a windy day option much more the cheaply than upgrading the reefing gear. It also provides something for the crew to do - although flaking sails efficiently on a deck or in the cabin is an art I have yet to master!

 

[Lakesailor]

I had a 18ft boat with a furler and when I bought my current 18ft boat with a hanked jib and knackered main, I replaced the main straight away and planned on a furler for this year. But I've changed my mind. I've got the hank-on to work well despite it's age and the only drawback is that it's not as easy to depower when sailing onto my mooring.
I also have an offer of some headsdails from a Windermere class boat which would cut down nicely to make a genoa for a lot less cost than some furling gear.
So don't rush into it.

 

[Shuggy]

When I bought my boat this year I had promised myself that I would change to roller furling ASAP. However, we've had one full season now and we're not going to change. (i) it's pretty easy taking the jib on and off, and (ii) I really like the look of a sail tied neatly up against the guard rails - really traditional!

 

[Peterduck]

I used to have a 23ft trailerable yacht which had a roller furling jib. When furled, though the rolled-up sail still presented a significant area to the rising wind. I would recommend a downhaul running from the head of the staysail [it's cutter-rigged] through the hanks to a block on deck at the tack. This can drop the jib quickly, leaving only the wire to face the wind.
Peter.

 

[Roach1948]

Just as a little aside: I understand "roller furling" to be Wykeham-Martin style gear with no extrusion on the stay and therefore purely designed to stow the sail "furled" under no load. What most people call "Roller Furling" these days I understand to be "Roller Reefing" - to reef under load. I know this sounds pedantic, but being the Classic Forum, I am sure there are a few of us out there that still use Wykeham-Martin furling gears which were never designed for reefing.

 

[Lakesailor]

I certainly meant reefing gear. I looked at furling-only gear and the cost/benefit made it a non-starter.

 

[Scarboroughsloop]

As another aside, I am looking at having reef points in a new genoa. This would free up the room used to store the various headsails, and also you would not need to unhank the sail from the forestay. Personally I would prefer a hanked on sail every time.

 

[Roach1948]

I mention the furling vs reefing as I think that what Peterduck is explaining can only be done on furling gear (I may be wrong though). I believe that sails on furling gear need a "luff wire" inserted in them - so that is a cost to consider. You still need a permanent stay as failure of the furling gear bearings could mean an unstayed mast - so as Lakesailor says, not really worth the cost compared to reefing gear unless you are a real traditionalist and like the look of a lot bronze everywhere.

 

[Ruffles]

Having spent months sharing a forecabin on a 30' boat with six sail bags I have to say there are advantages with roller reefing!

However the set of a hanked on 150% genoa seems to be so much better than a fully unfurled feefing sail because the cloth is so much lighter. If you have the crew to handle them you're better off with seperate sails.

 

[Mirelle]

Right. Me, for one

Wykeham Martin size 4, on the jib.

To reduce headsail area - roll jib, cast off outhaul, change rolled jibs, haul out... set.

 

[Roach1948]

Re: Right. Me, for one

Never thought of that. Well I have to say I am a bronze man myself - so maybe this is a way of getting around my poorly flaked sails. Have all these "Swiss Rolls" stored in the forward cabin instead!

 

[keelbolts]

Re: Right. Me, for one

Real sailors hank 'em on. Roller reefing is costly, compared to hanks, and results in a poorly shaped sail while raising your point of effort right when you'd like it lower. Further, practically any time a storm blows thru you can find somebody with a shredded headsail that came unrolled. If, for some reason, you are unable to work your sails and you're staying in sheltered waters, RR may work for you, but otherwise...

Having said all that, when I am too old to change a sail I will go to a Wykeham Martin set up. It is the best of the bunch, I think

 

[fishermantwo]

Re: Right. Me, for one

I have brass hanked fittings on all my sails. I have often wondered though about the plastic hanks now readily available, just how strong are these? I have this extra sail with out hanks and plastic is not only cheaper but readily available. I have to search for brass ones.

 

[KRG]

I have hanks and have considered changing to some form of furling but each time i've come back to prefering the set of the right sail for the conditions.

Hanks are simple and there isn't much to go wrong, let go the halyard and down comes the sail. I thought of using a furler just for ease of setting, the idea was to have a set of sails and choose the best one for the current conditions, but I changed my mind when I saw how difficult it can be to hoist and drop a furling sail on a foil.

I don't think I would ever be happy with the compromise of a furling jib, of course one day I might have to, but whilst I can still get up to the foredeck I'm staying hanked

 

[m1taylor]

Many thanks everyone - I think I'll stick with the brass hanks as suggested which will save alot of money and hassle.

 

[Mirelle]

More on Wykeham Martin gear.

This is of course a furling gear not a reefing gear.

Having a cutter with a bowsprit, the staysail is hanked to the inner forestay which runs to the stem head. This sail has two rows of reef points (I've only used the second row once!) and is exchanged for a big balloon staysail when reaching in light airs.

The working jib is set on a Wykeham Martin gear on the bowsprit traveller. I never leave it rolled and set when leaving the boat - I always stow it below - but of course I leave it rolled when anchoring, etc during a trip.

There is a small jib which is stowed, rolled, down below and can be exchanged for the working jib in a blow.

There are big bronze snap shackles at head and tack.

The "sausages" take less room than a sailbag.

The practical advantage of the Wykeham Martin gear in a cutter is that you can stow the staysail early on when approaching moorings or an anchorage, leaving the foredeck clear to deal with the anchor or buoy and allowing excellent forward vision, relying on the jib to balance the mainsail. You can then roll the jib from the cockpit at the last moment .

The gear does not always work perfectly in high winds.

 

[keelbolts]

Re: More on Wykeham Martin gear.

Here in the USA we're starting to see sailors with a forestay inches behind their roller reefing gear so that they can run up another sail as needed. I draw a blank at this one. Isn't that an admission that roller reefing doesn't really work? Unless you're out on a bowsprit, I've just never found hanking on a sail to be all that difficult.

 

[Mirelle]

Re: More on Wykeham Martin gear.

That sounds to me to be a recipe for a first class frap-up, since there is every chance of wrapping the lazy forestay up in the roller headsail. The tension will come on the headsail stay and the lazy stay will go slack enough to get caught up in the roller sail. Unseamanlike and muddled thinking.

The Wykeham Martin gear is of course intended to be used on a bowsprit, and it is strictly a furling gear not a reefing gear.

It differs from a reefing gear in that it is very much quicker in use - you can unfurl or furl the sail in literally half a minute at the most.

I "do not approve" of hanked headsails set from bowsprits aboard anything smaller than 100ft or so! I am amazed when I see US boats with this sort of set up - far better set the sail flying from a traveller. The Wykeham Martin furler is just an improved way of handling a jib set flying, so far as I am concerned