Furling a Cruising Chute

[rigpigpaul]

Hi All, I have a Cruising Chute bought 18 months ago and it has hardly been used. My problem is I sail short handed with my wife a lot of the time. Handling the sail can be a handful by myself on deck, even with a sock. I sail in the Greek islands and Turkish coast. It breaks my heart having to leave it in the bag when it should be flying. My boat is a Beneteau 423. So I want to install a furling system. What should I be looking for, which type, can the tack be controlled, how long should the furling rope be, etc Any advice greatly received. RPP

 

[Appleyard]

Morning.. Can you be a bit more specific about the difficulty you are having ? Like you, we use a chute often ( in the same part of the world ) and I did have a lot of hassle to begin with, but eventually figured out an easy way to handle the sail.

 

[duncan99210]

There are furlers for chutes on the market IIRC Seateach sell them. However, I'd persevere with the snuffer, as we've found it works well and can be handled easily. Have you tried simply dropping the snuffed sail down the forward hatch and thn returning it to its bag latter on? Easily done single handed as you're not trying to push the thing into a bag whilst controlling the halyard.

 

[TQA]

I single hand a 44 ft mono much of the time and fly a chute in light conditions.. As the years a are catching up with me, handling the pole is getting harder, so I am thinking that I would get more use out of a Code Zero on a furler..

If you find a solution to furling a chute I would be interested in hearing how well it works.

 

[charles_reed]

I think a "cruising chute" on a furler is probably a non-starter, but as already suggested having a genniker/code zero/asymmetric on a furler is fairly common.
Talk with Crusader @ Poole, they do complete systems.
The code-zero, differs from a cruising chute in being even more asymmetric, having a hard luff and being (in truth) a reaching rather than a running sail.
I quite frequently use mine in the Med, without a furler, but being single-handed, with no wife, don't have the problems you face.
It's rather easier to fly than a spinnaker, but you do need to get the foot some distance in front of the bows and, ideally, have some transverse movement to adjust the slot. Look at any of the racing keelboats which have them as standard.

 

[Takamoana]

Having wrestled with a sock on our previous boat, we splurged on a continuous line furler and find that we use the spin more often and have confidence that even when the wind picks up a few hauls on the furler totally de-powers the sail and allows easy handling. We control the tack via a 4 part purchase through a block on our bowsprit. The furler line is fitted to a small block and a length of bungy cord with a spring clip attaches to the rail at a convenient point to keep the furler line tensioned when furling.

 

[Cariadco]

Why am I looking down on my boat...?

Having wrestled with a sock on our previous boat, we splurged on a continuous line furler and find that we use the spin more often and have confidence that even when the wind picks up a few hauls on the furler totally de-powers the sail and allows easy handling. We control the tack via a 4 part purchase through a block on our bowsprit. The furler line is fitted to a small block and a length of bungy cord with a spring clip attaches to the rail at a convenient point to keep the furler line tensioned when furling.

Interesting reading. I have a 'Socked' CS and generally it's a piece of cake, however if the wind does pick up, it can be a bit of a monster to douse.
I'm half way snuffing it and a large gust comes in, many times it bugger's lifted me off the deck as the remaining bit of sail tries to open again and 'lift' the sock back up the sail. I've often thought of fitting a jammer, usually just as my feet start to lift off the deck.
However, in light winds, no probs.
Regards,

 

[rigpigpaul]

Furling a cruising chute

Interesting reading. I have a 'Socked' CS and generally it's a piece of cake, however if the wind does pick up, it can be a bit of a monster to douse.
I'm half way snuffing it and a large gust comes in, many times it bugger's lifted me off the deck as the remaining bit of sail tries to open again and 'lift' the sock back up the sail. I've often thought of fitting a jammer, usually just as my feet start to lift off the deck.
However, in light winds, no probs.
Regards,

I have been caught out a couple of times when the wind picks up. I should have been more aware in hindsight. So with the wife on the wheel and myself in mid air I thought about a furling system. Also had a few hour glass situations. I would definitely use the sail a lot more if I was able to snuff it with two of us. My wife also hates me going forward in rough weather.

 

[nickd]

Surely it would not be beyond the wit of man to rig a couple of blocks so that the snuffer lines are led back to the cockpit, that way you can control everything from the same place,

 

[FullCircle]

I have a Sun Odyssey 35 with a Selden Bowsprit, 100mm diameter with maximum 1.1m forward of roller. I have a Crusader furling system, which is just a torque rope with an endless line furling drum snap shackled to the front of the bowsprit.
The furling lines lead aft to a double block attached to the pushpit stanchion, and a normal cleat to make it off on.

The cruising chute needs a patch attached in the middle of the luff to attach it by line to the torque rope. My cruising chute (made by Crusader, but much earlier) is a bit belly full and does not roll to a crisp package that you can sail round with, and therefore needs taking down after a day's sailing, or if the wind looks likely to pick up to the point where it might catch hold of the chute and rip it. It is much better now I have a smooth technique for furling, which does take some practice.

The downside is the attachment of the furling drum to the bowsprit, as it is not easy to slide in and out, as the sprit can move from side to side, slightly jamming it in the bow roller through fitting. Not a problem in OK weather, but a bit of a triple selko toe loop activity if you leave it up a bit late.

We do coil it like a snake into a round spinnaker bag, we did use a genoa long turtle bag, but it was more difficult to store and drag about the decks. As a unit it is quite heavy with the chute, bolt rope and furling drum all in one bag.

Downside is that you are restricted on sail shape, as you cannot put a pole on the tack, because it is attached to the furling drum, and you cannot belly out the luff much because of the attachment to the torque rope.
having said that, we attach the pole to the clew and run it square and loose to allow us to sail with it to about 170 degrees apparent. We dip pole on tacking the chute, which we 1/2 furl to pull it through the foretriangle, then reattach the pole if required.

We had a snuffer, but Mrs Fc was never keen, and to be honest it was OK for me to stuff it down the hatch without. But she feels more in control with the furler.

I have just bought a standard symmetrical spinnaker though, but it will only come out on boys trips. It will not replace the cruising chute.

 

[Cariadco]

Surely it would not be beyond the wit of man to rig a couple of blocks so that the snuffer lines are led back to the cockpit, that way you can control everything from the same place,

Fair point, I'll put it on the list of things to do......

 

[Mrnotming]

Interesting thread, wondering if it is worth all the extra gear involved.We have an old Blooper by North 38 years old now, sees daylight for about 4 hours every three years!flies readily on a reach,or a little broader still, in light airs.One sheet,walk it around the forestay (not in rough weather) and use the same sheet again!Gives us 5 knots on its own, in 15kts breeze.
Amusement mostly, we dump it quickly if more than F4.Have to be careful about wraps, as no spinaker net on present boat.
Think I would use a sort of modern light No 1 (code zero now) if it could furl in such a way as not to have the wind unpick it, a permanent stay preferred?

 

[ip485]

I use a Bamar Furler with an asymetric.

Furling and unfurling is a easy and entirely possible with one, never mind two with a pretty powerful asymetric on a 50 foot yacht.

That said, it has taken some time to ensure the system is used properly. There is a huge number of turns to furl the spinnaker and while this could be done manually using the power winch makes an enormous difference. It also takes a little while for the tension to build in the furler and therefore before the edge of the sail starts to take up. Finally as others have said the whole set up is reasonably heavy so a system for rigging it is vital. Again a power winch to hoist in the first place does make light work of what would otherwise involve a bit of grunt.

Personally I would think twice of using it in more than 20 knots certainly with two up but so much depends on the size of yacht. Even furled there is a fair amount of windage and therefore you want to ensure the furling is "tight" so billows don't form in the furled sail assuming you are going to carry it furled for any time.

I am still thinking about gybing and in this much I think the furler has its limitations. In theory it may be possible to carry a guy and sheet but I am not convinced - yet. So that of course means furling before gybing and setting up on the "new" side.

All in all for one or two people it is a really effective system and takes all the hassle out of flying a kite (albiet an asymetric) - just don't expect the process to be all that quick and you will not be disappointed.

An asymetric is of course not great dead downwind and a spinnaker will win hands down if that is your bag. I am going to add a spinnaker as well with a snuffer for times when running downwind is preferable but the asymetric works very well any where from a broad reach (or a little closer if you will) to 15 degrees off a run - in so far as practical cruising is concerned. Back in the days of sailing a Boss I might have thought differently!

 

[charles_reed]

Interesting thread, wondering if it is worth all the extra gear involved.We have an old Blooper by North 38 years old now, sees daylight for about 4 hours every three years!flies readily on a reach,or a little broader still, in light airs.One sheet,walk it around the forestay (not in rough weather) and use the same sheet again!Gives us 5 knots on its own, in 15kts breeze.
Amusement mostly, we dump it quickly if more than F4.Have to be careful about wraps, as no spinaker net on present boat.
Think I would use a sort of modern light No 1 (code zero now) if it could furl in such a way as not to have the wind unpick it, a permanent stay preferred?

Bloopers were a very short-lived outcome of the IoR design fiasco, in an attempt to make up for a shrunken rule-cheating main downwind.
Excellent things for keeping boys busy, but in no way comparable to the asymmetrics flown on more modern/normal boats.
So I'd guess your comparison is invidious (or at least a non sequitor)

 

[Mrnotming]

Charles, thanks, but it works without the IOR spinnaker,unbelievable if you are a sailmaker!Have flown both together and collected trophy as a result.Now I like fun without hassle and this sail is not going to go away until it explodes from over indulgence like myself!Perhaps another Forumite would like to comment on the possibility of forestay wraps if genoa furled, and ways to avoid this in swell conditions(not just swell for the skipper!).Sorry for the telegramese, been reading John le Carre, "Absolute Friends" seditious stuff, about 2/3 ways through! Thread remains on course in the sense that avoiding wraps around forestay was a big topic in most offshore races, and methods to avoid this were several, not all applicable now due to the genoa being permanently wrapped around the forestay.Formerly one could arrange sliding rings and lines to drop down the forestay from above, forming a barrier to the tendancy of the spinnaker to billow into the foretriangle in the direction which would cause a wrap to begin or lock.A false sail might still be employed (netting) if tacked very close to the furled genoa.
Whilst freely admitting that sails have changed over time, and not always for the better, I would not like my reasonings to be extinguished by allocating my remarks to a specific IOR era which we are all aware gave rise to peculiarities and distortions.So does Formula One racing, and I'll bet Charles, you are not setting the points on your car ignition, as heretofore, simply because design has filtered down which obviates this need.
So before consigning another posters comments to the bin, or attempting to,please consider that most techniques to do with managing sails and yacht can be found in a Dixon Kemp manual of say 1897, which will include the then YRA rules which were I am told formulated by the Royal Alfred Yacht Club, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dubllin and subsequently adopted by the major Clubs in Britain.There is always a place for knowledge in history, and those who use it for the good of others should surely not be castigated for the efforts they make to make cruising derived from racing experience, a safer and more enjoyable experience.invidious
ɪnˈvɪdɪəs/
adjective
adjective: invidious

(of an action or situation) likely to arouse or incur resentment or anger in others.
"she'd put herself in an invidious position"
synonyms: unpleasant, awkward, difficult; More
undesirable, unenviable
"I didn't want to put her in an invidious position"
antonyms: pleasant, desirable
(of a comparison or distinction) unfairly discriminating; unjust.
"it seems invidious to make special mention of one aspect of his work"
synonyms: unfair, unjust, prejudicial, discriminatory, iniquitous, weighted, one-sided; More
offensive, objectionable;
deleterious, detrimental, unwarranted
"an invidious comparison"
antonyms: fair

Origin