Funny thing about wooden boat owners...

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Mirelle

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An adjacent post, and the replies to it brings, this to mind, though I am not referring to that thread at all.

Those who own modern mass produced boats accuse us of always wanting to run up the prices of our wooden boats, using emotional language like, "Much loved family pet, same owners since Trafalgar, needs new home, as owners are getting frail".

Actually, we don't. Get two or three wooden boat owners together and the talk will turn at some point to brokerage ads, and someone is bound to say "...but that's ridiculous for one of those!" and those gathered together will nod their heads sagely and come up with other instances where "one of those" went for something "more sensible".

All will agree that several thousand should be knocked off the price before anyone considers looking at any boat, because "old so-and-so's boat, which was in much better nick, went for £x in 1967 or whenever, whilst this one fell off her cradle in 1973 and old Bloggins, who did the repairs, put some short ends in..."

We wonder why our boats don't fetch more - in truth, we have enough sense to know, collectively is not as individuals, that our hobby depends on younger people buying boats at prices they can afford! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
It's all a bit odd. I'm not sure that a wooden boat is worth anything - on the basis that its only worth what someone will pay for it. I suppose we all have at the back of our minds the fact that we paid x for the boat, added y over the years in those improvements and then we are entitled to a bit of z for all that extra tlc we lavished over the years. The reality is that there ain't that many people around who are prepared to consider wooden boats, (I suspect linked to a reduction in the number of people who have a reasonable amount of DIY boating maintenance skills) so x probably isn't close to what we paid. As for y, well you can soon spend more than the value you can add - does it make a ha'pporth of difference whether I have a DSC or an old set to the value; there's some sort of added value that goes between a scale of 'not enough gear so subtract' or 'enough to say she's well equipped' which is necessary for a reasonable price. If I added a Taylor's heater this winter would it make any difference to her value - I doubt it but it would be another grand spent on her. And then there's z. And the truth is you don't get anything on the value for extra tlc. You've either maintained her or you haven't and that's the thing.

There's two things I can't work out. One is how so many people can find £50k for an 'entry level' boat? My entry level was £2.5k and that was a bit of a struggle even though I was quite well paid at the time. I know people are topping up the mortgages but they have to be enormous in the first place these days anyway. With house repossessions up 66% as of today, does this mean that the AWB second hand market will soon collapse? The second thing is how does this wooden boat thing end. The reality is I don't want any other boat. If I went for better performance in a wooden boat, I'd have to sacrifice some of the room. I don't want anything bigger to maintain and I'm too large to go back to something smaller. And I can't find it in myself to like an AWB, good though some of them are. They are all faster of course but they ain't as comfortable as far as I can see. So I'll keep TG until I can sail and maintain her no longer (that's on a physical or financial basis). Then what. Will there be anyone who wants her? I'm not sure. Not because she's no good but simply because I can see much of a market now for wooden boats and I'm sure that in the future there will continue to be growth in the secondhand AWB market to such an extent that anything not a 'Sunbeau 35DS' won't be considered. So what happens? I would rather torch her than see her rot - but then I could never set fire to her.
 
I only ever wanted a Huntsman 28, they only come in wood so I had little choice.

Much like TG I'd struggle to love a plastic boat, I've sailed and motored on many and its just not the same.

I have two project boats, by the time they are finished I'll be a grey haired toothless old git more grumpy than I am today, god knows how I'll manage to reduce the fleet to one boat....the thought of paying a brokers fees fills me with gloom.
 
Only two!

(but, come to think of it, they are both rather spectacular boats!)

I own up to a 16ft clinker launch, converted from an RNLI boarding boat, a Firefly and a 9ft Nutshell clinker ply stem dinghy. The first two were "rescued" and the last was a kit.
 
I hope Mirelle and I are together for many years yet.

If I bought a boat that was faster and went to windward better, (in the unlikely event that I could afford it!) it would draw more, and I could not stow the dinghy on deck for lack of room, or the boathook up the shrouds for fear of windage, and so on.

If I was sensible, and bought a smaller boat, we couldn't stow the kitchen sink, etc., when the family come, which they often do.

And since any other boat would certainly be wood (I had a GRP tender once; it did not seem like a boat at all!) I would have all the worries all over again, espescially if she wasn't teak.

I don't understand the £50K entry level boat either. But I get more fun buying her "presents" at boat jumbles - right now I have decided that she needs a full set of B&G grey box stuff, in keeping with the rest of her equipment, which seems stuck in the 1970's - than most people do in swindleries.

I am not too glum about the future of wooden boats - overheard my 10 year old discussing with a friend, whose family have a similar boat, their respective plans for inheriting "their" boats!
 
I have found myself in the position of having to sell my beloved gaff ketch "Swallow". I don't like it, but it is necessary. Rising costs and lowering agility combine to mean that she has to find a new custodian. [See "Getting Afloat", last August]. There are so few older wooden boats which are even remotely similar being sold here that I could not rely on "the market" for a value. I had to balance what I would like to get with what I thought someone would be prepared to pay, factor in the sum for which she is insured, and come out at a figure.

I have had two serious enquiries, both as a result of that "Getting Afloat" piece. You can imagine how grateful I am for it. Local advertising in a "Boats For Sale" magazine [full of AWB's] has been quite unproductive.

I cannot imagine any other boat which I would want after "Swallow"; she so completely suited me. So, I'll come ashore, and probably occupy myself with painting pictures of anchorages and harbours.
Peter.
 
Peter,

I'm sure someone of your experience would have no problem finding crew places with people new to wooden boats, who would take you out sailing in return for expert advice. Just a thought.
 
I suppose also there are two different kinds of wooden boat owner, the ones that can do the work themselves and the ones that can't. I would like to be a former, but I am one of the latter.

When I go looking for a "new" boat, I try to find one that had the full nine yard renovation between five and ten years ago. This is on the basis that the owner will have amortised his hefty expenditure for long enough to be able to sell at a realistic cost, and I'll be buying a boat the won't need more than titivation for a few years.

There's a boat for sale at the moment in the West Country, she's been a live-aboard, looks from the details to be cared for, but the inventory and the pictures tell me it's time for a refit. I don't want to spend the time, and I don't have full enough pockets to take that on, (it's so open ended).

The number of wooden boats one comes across that have had little money spent on them is quite large, and very often the owners need persuading that the reduction in the sales price is not actually that the boat has reduced in value, it's a reflection of "deferred maintenance".
 
Young people, old boats...

I trust that Mudlark and his co-conspirator are merely discussing what they'll do when they come into their inheritance, not how to come into it more quickly!

By this time, of course, he will have had the benefit of a good number of years experience on said vessel, under an excellent tutor. I fear that the biggest thing preventing young people buying wooden boats is the steepness of the learning curve. I have to swallow my pride quite a lot and explain to disapproving onlookers why Crystal isn't the sparkling example of annual maintenance that she ought to be - I don't have the skill myself, nor the money to pay a professional, and therefore she often looks less than perfect (usually when I've been let loose with a roller). It's a shame that she has to be the test-bed for me to learn on, but that's the way it is, and will be for some time yet. The perceptions have to change a little in a changing world, or else people simply won't bother to take up the hobby.

/<
 
Re: Young people, old boats...

We sadly have admitted defeat and decided to try and sell our old girl, we dont have the time to give her the attention she deserves. It's quite depressing to see some shinny plastic thing being sold for telephone numbers, and we have only started to get interest when we have dropped the price to £10,000 and will probably end up selling for less.
We have much more room than any thing else of the same lenght, much stronger and is one of a kind.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: Young people, old boats...

As a youngun that bought a wooden boat (im 21), ive found the learning curve on maintence to be difficult and its taken time, since getting my first wooden boat aged 18, that one rotting away benath my feet until i sold it and bought my current boat, a 35 feet long ex mod boat.

Basically, i bit off more than i could chew with the first one, a 27 feet johnson and jago. It was too far gone really but it did give me 2 years of use for not much dosh. It served well as my 'test bed' for learning reapiring techniques but simply trying things. Often they didnt work but now i know what i can and cant do.

My current one tho, i looked for something that was basically sound, but ws a bit rough around the edges. New paints and expoxies make repairs fairly easy to carry out. as said, I learnt what to do and not to do from my old one, so....

I vastly reduced the amount of brightwork with substantial quantities of white paint. Nice white paint wins hands down over tiresome tatty looking varnish.

Teak deck was once of the first things to go. It leaked everywhere and was getting a bit thin. Ive started covering with west epoxy. The end result looks similar to a canvas deck covering. It wont leak again and it will outlast me.

Laminating is easier than sawn or steam bending. Expoxies make doing it a doodle with a few clamps.

And lastly, im no artist with paint, but then its an old boat. Why put a perfect coat of paint on not perfect boat? Its had a few knocks and bangs. Leave them there and show its an old boat with a bit a character.

All in, id always buy wood now if i get another boat. They handle better than GRP boats, their stronger and they look nicer. Just a little care and prompt seeing to of leaks will make it last longer than me!
 
Thats a shame ...I removed all my grey box B n G Homer and/or Heron from Fairweather a year or so back when I when to GPS and Yeoman...it all went in the bin with the Vigil Radar. The only bit I kept was the hand bearing compass.

I have to say that the nav station looks rather less interesting now especially since the old Sailor VHF packed up last year and is now replaced with an 'orrible DSC thing..

On the subject of how to love a plastic boat, having owned a few wooden boats over the years, I can't imagine how I could maintain 4 kids a marriage sanity and another wooden boat! I find that something like the Halberdier is not such a bad compromise, 35 years old, aging with dignity, no rot and no osmosis!
 
Re: Young people, old boats...

I must admit, I bit off one hell of a lot, but then again she had an excellent survey, so as long as nothing more than cosmetic painting and varnishing are not quite up to standard, I don't mind. If anything serious needed doing, I would have her at Robertson's like a shot and start working all the hours God sends to pay for it. It makes me very nervous that I can't take chances with Crystal because too many people know and admire her, so to attempt a serious job requiring skills I don't have would be suicide. It's also pressure I don't need - it's more than enough just keeping her afloat and safe without having to worry about her pedigree - and if I'm in danger of letting her down, I'll send her to someone who won't.

That said, we are embarking on the first stages of the chart table rebuild this winter, and a complete rewire, all of which are within the capabilities of my volunteer team. I'm really looking forward to the challenge of constructing new woodwork which will hopefully appear to be original. That's the plan anyway...

/<
 
I might become a plastic person though....

At the moment I'm tempted by a smallish motor sailer, and have been offered a lovely Inchcape 32. I'm looking at all the good things, Taylor cooker, Gardner engine, MFV shape, Gaff rig, cascovered from new, beamy and purposeful.

Then I saw a picture of a Rogger 34, circa early 70's. It's even got a shower and an aft cabin. About the same money and just scrub it every year.
 
Get thee behind me!

A friend and his wife lived aboard an Inchcape for some years, until their family reached four, at which point they moved ashore. They got round Britain in her, and liked her very much.
 
Re: Get thee behind me!

Yes I like them very much too. The 32 is the baby and there was a late built 49 that I would die for, built in 1989, but the [--word removed--] is they always come up for sale when the cash flow is in crisis or you've got a boat that needs selling first.

There are some in-between sizes about too. Decisions decisions.

I think they are much prettier than Fifers, the only real competition.
 
Re: Get thee behind me!

I know an early 33ft Fifer (forward wheelhouse, cruiser stern, gaff ketch) that is drop dead gorgeous. So much so that when she spent a couple of years in a mud berth looking unloved I started to think that I might have to do something about it. Fortunately for all concerned, she fell into the best possible hands, and is even getting her Kelvn back...
 
Re: Get thee behind me!

I don't think I've ever seen one with a forward wheelhouse, that sounds like big MFV style, all have the cruiser stern, the better ones had Kelvin or Gardners, (rather rare), and the breed is a bit prone to rot in the deck house.

There are a couple of very nice Gardner engined 39's on the market, like this one
http://www.schwops.co.uk/Boat/

(For God's Sake don't try and click on the images to expand them, the files sizes are prodigious!)
 
Re: Get thee behind me!

Name is "Linnhe Shiele" - currently on the Ouse - she dates from the late 1920's and is quite unlike the later ones. Much prettier. It is fair to say that the view from the wheelhouse is not wonderful as it is set into the deck and she has a lovely sweeping sheer! Teak deck house with "railway carriage style" leather strap windows
 
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