Full Battens on a Bolt Rope

[Hermit]

Hello All,
I am in need of a new mizzen and the sailmaker has suggested full battens. There is a lot to like for a mizzen (less flog, better when motorsailing to name 2) but my worry is that the sail fits to the mast via bolt rope, not sail slides. This is part of the design and would not be easy to change. My question is - does anyone have any experience of using full battens to a bolt rope - the sailmaker assures me this is fine and the luff pocket boxes can be stiched to the sail? I worry that the wear and tension on the luff may be a problem.

Any thoughts?

Rob

 

[ProMariner]

It's pretty standard in small boats, dinghies, and cats, never noticed any real difference between hoisting full battens and short battens on a bolt rope. Go for it, I recon, the extra power, longer sail life, extra area and better sail trim make it a no brainer. Sure someone will be along and say it's not as easy to scandalise, or makes it less user friendly as a riding sail.

 

[Hermit]

It's pretty standard in small boats, dinghies, and cats, never noticed any real difference between hoisting full battens and short battens on a bolt rope.

Good point - I have used them myself in dinghies but didn't put 2 and 2 together!

 

[dunedin]

Out of interest, why would fitting slides and batten cars be difficult if getting a new sail? Many cars/slides can go in the mast without a separate track, but it may depend on age / section of mast.
Slides and cars are better if a bit more expensive.

 

[Hermit]

The slot for the bolt rope is reasonably high up from the gooseneck and, as it is a bolt rope, doesn't have anything to prevent the rope sliding out when lowering (as you would imagine). I could put a pin in to stop the slides dropping out of the slot each time but that would leave the sail high and make the stackpack huge.

It is also much easier to feed a bolt rope into a slot once and guide it up than to put each slide in as it goes up.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I can't comment on the bolt rope vers. slide aspect, but we had our new main and mizzen done with full length battens. Cars where not available (we tried) for our tracks. We have slides and they work fine.
Battens are excellent for a mizzen, as has already been said, I would just add that it makes sense to have your mizzen cut a bit flatter than the main. This allows you to carry it closer to windward in spite of the interference from the main and , when using it as a riding sail, it will be less "floppy". I had suggested this to my sailmaker after previous experience with our boat and other ketches and he agreed.

 

[Neeves]

We too cannot comment on a bolt rope - we use slugs (are they the same as slides?) and fully battened main 45m ^2. Cars and their fittings are the way to go - if you have a big pocket. We have had no problems over 20 years (except the top batten is sometimes inverted - but this 'blows out' in any wind)

Do you reef a mizzen (showing total ignorance ? if you reef - what do you do with all the sail if a bolt rope.

We sail a 38' cat.

Jonathan

 

[mjcoon]

- we use slugs (are they the same as slides?)

Maybe slugs are self-lubricating (with slime) slides?

 

[Bodach na mara]

It is also much easier to feed a bolt rope into a slot once and guide it up than to put each slide in as it goes up.

Surely you have to feed the bolt rope every time you hoist the sail. With slides you need to feed them only once per season.

I had slides on the mizzen of my Westerly Renown but the Proctor mast looked as if it had been designed for a bolt rope. The slides were retained by a long split pin through the foot of the bolt rope groove. I wanted full battens when I renewed the sail but Kemp advised using thier powermain shorter battens, which worked well. And in answer to an earlier question, I have never reefed the mizzen.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Surely you have to feed the bolt rope every time you hoist the sail. With slides you need to fedd them only once per season.

I had slides on the mizzen of my Westerly Renown but the Proctor mast looked as if it had been designed for a bolt rope. The slides were retained by a long split pin through the foot of the bolt rope groove. I wanted full battens when I renewed the sail but Kemp advised using thier powermain shorter battens, which worked well. And in answer to an earlier question, I have never reefed the mizzen.

Our old short batten mizzen had 7.5 sqm the new full batten has 9 +sqm and it also gives a more powerful shape for reaching, which is where a ketch is supposed to be good at. Our's has one reef, as did the old one; I'm not sure I want to imagine, never mind sail, in the kind of weather we would need it. We too have slides and they are the round slug type which are a good substitute for a bolt rope.

 

[Hermit]

Surely you have to feed the bolt rope every time you hoist the sail. With slides you need to fedd them only once per season

The entry slot for the bottom of the luff is relatively high above the gooseneck. Leaving the slides in the slot would mean a long distance between gooseneck and first slide and also mean the sail bag/stack pack would be a crazy shape.

 

[Laminar Flow]

The entry slot for the bottom of the luff is relatively high above the gooseneck. Leaving the slides in the slot would mean a long distance between gooseneck and first slide and also mean the sail bag/stack pack would be a crazy shape.

My track has an aluminium plate/cover that screws over the side of the track to reestablish continuance of the track. This way the slides can be brought down to the gooseneck.

 

[Hermit]

I have a seperate track mounted on the rear face of the mast for the bolt rope. This track ends at least a foot above the gooseneck. Whist there is a gate to allow slides in the mast extrusion, that would mean removing the mast track.

The system is (was) original 1977 boom roller reefing but not like others I have seen (or my rigger either). The boom was rotated using a handle which went through the mast. In this way, the entire boom rotated and the sail was stowed on the boom (with a sacrifical strip like a genoa). Shotrly after I took ownership the gooseneck snapped and parts are long gone. I have replaced it with a slab reefing boom (although don't expect to reef much if at all) and, because the sail is very old and baggy with strips of sacrifical material trailing like streamers I am also getting a new one made up.

This also means I have to either add a stackpack or sailbag. I am going for a stackpack becuase, as it is an aft cockpit ketch, I want to keep the sail out of the cockpit and above heads (which was actually a breeze with the original system - although unusual, it worked really well).

I have attached some photos of how it was just after the break - there is a shiny new boom there now just waiting for a crisp new sail

 

[Laminar Flow]

I have a seperate track mounted on the rear face of the mast for the bolt rope. This track ends at least a foot above the gooseneck. Whist there is a gate to allow slides in the mast extrusion, that would mean removing the mast track.

The system is (was) original 1977 boom roller reefing but not like others I have seen (or my rigger either). The boom was rotated using a handle which went through the mast. In this way, the entire boom rotated and the sail was stowed on the boom (with a sacrifical strip like a genoa). Shotrly after I took ownership the gooseneck snapped and parts are long gone. I have replaced it with a slab reefing boom (although don't expect to reef much if at all) and, because the sail is very old and baggy with strips of sacrifical material trailing like streamers I am also getting a new one made up.

This also means I have to either add a stackpack or sailbag. I am going for a stackpack becuase, as it is an aft cockpit ketch, I want to keep the sail out of the cockpit and above heads (which was actually a breeze with the original system - although unusual, it worked really well).

I have attached some photos of how it was just after the break - there is a shiny new boom there now just waiting for a crisp new sailView attachment 121813View attachment 121814View attachment 121815

I can see your point. Drilling out those rivets would be a pain and I assume that the track, to make an extension, may no longer be available.
Our ketch is also an aft cockpit and I have rigged lazy jacks to drop the fully battened sail into, which is very convenient as we are usually too lazy to remove the bimini over the cockpit while sailing. All it then takes is a quick , single strop to tie it down until we are in port or at anchor.