Fuel questions

[wpsalm]

I understand that deisel No. 1 is a cold weather formulation, so what are we burning here in the tropics ?
Is it possible to run a diesel engine on kerosene a.k.a. parafin ?
Is there anything that can be added to low grade diesel to reduce smoking ?
Thanks...

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[johnsomerhausen]

It is perfectly OK to use paraffin (kerosene) in a diesel engine provided you add 3 to 5% SAE 30 lubricating oil to it. Some people say you could use 2-cycle outboard engine oil but theree's no engine manufacturers' data on that
john

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[Keith]

in the forces we used to run a lot of our anti icing machines and snow ploughs on avcat which is basically parafin, it would run on it but would not start on it, this may well apply in your case......i have no proof of what i am saying, just that this is iswhat happened with our gear, be careful, be safe.........keith

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[wpsalm]

Just as a point of interest, kerosene outboards are quite common in India, but they must be started on petrol and switched to kerosene...but this only works if the engine is under load when swithched over...
The main reason I,ve asked this question is that I need clean No.1 deisel and understand this is a cold weather formulation. wonder if they change the formulation in Europe during the summer ? The diesel here in the tropics (No.2 ?) is yellowish brown colour which I assume means high carbon content is there anyway to clean it up or anysort of additive to prevent carbon build up ??
Thanks

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[johnsomerhausen]

Keith, what you are referroing to there is the use of paraffinb on petrol (not diesel) engines. Before WW II, quite a few farmers used that on their tractors and a few yotties had converted tgheir engines to run on paraffin. You started the engine on petrol, turned a petcock to switch over to paraffin when the engine was hot and then returned rto petrol just before switching the engine off.
john

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[supermalc]

I was hoping a professional would answer your question.....however paraffin is added to diesel to stop it freezing in cold countries i.e. Europe. I don't know the amounts, but from memory it could be around 5% (more a guess)

Paraffin evaporates at a higher temperature than petrol, so engines (farm and boat) that are allowed to be used on untaxed fuel, were started on petrol to get them warmed up, then switched over to paraffin. The duel carburettors were designed to preheat the paraffin, so enabling compustion.

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[supermalc]

You also asked if this is done in the summer. The answer is no, as if we get a sudden cold snap in the autumn here in the UK, many diesel engined vehicles will stop when the diesel freezes.

Not so common nowadays as many modern vehicles have insulated fuel lines, or are protected by running next to water pipes, or heated in some other way.

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[ongolo]

Carbon is not really the problem, as any diesel is a hydrocarbon and has lots of carbon in. Sulphor to our knowledge is the problem around here.

One difference of diesel used here in the hot climate is that the flash point of our diesel is 65 to 75 Deg.Cel. where by it is 45 or more in Europe, but only 35 or so in India.

Petrol and parafine are less than 45 but the self igintion point is higher (about 270 degr.) than diesel (210 degr.)

regards ongolo

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[seaesta2]

You can run your engine on diesel diluted with kerosine - but I would seriously advise against doing so because this is likely to cause rapid wear on your injection system. The diesel is a reasonable lubricant - kerosine will stop this lubricant effect.

A decade or two ago - before the UK Government specified the cold weather performance of diesel oil - there were probelms with fuel "waxing" in extreme cold and a few truckers got going by adding kerosine - others lighted fires under their trucks - both were desperate measures in desperate times.

The cost of good clean fuel is small in comparison to new engines - get good fuel.

It may be that if you are outside Europe that the diesel has a high sulpur content - this produces some acid which is nuetralised by engine oil . If youhave high sulphur change the engine oil very frequently as it looses its nuetralisation capacity

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[Guest]

Kerosine is often added in small %age doses to Diesel to reduce the Cloud Point. This is where crystals form in the Diesel 'clouding' the appearance ..... making buyers / users question its quality !
The actual point made about blocking filters etc. is actually Cold Filter PLugging Point - this is a different problem and not cured by adding Kerosine. The cure is to add a true CFPP additive which is common prcatice all over the world where cold weather properties are required. Most diesel stock has a natural CFPP temp of -5 to -10C ...... and a cloud point usually about 5 degrees lower.

The original post quotes Diesel No. 1 ..... in Europe this is EN590 ..... as to Tropics - why ask the question as CFPP / Cloud Point is not an issue .... and straight diesel is perfectly ok.

As to Sulphur - it is generally universal in the world now to use low sulphur diesel in most applications - especially road use .... and to be honest even when not low sulphur it will be normally something like 0.5% grade - which is a lot less than the old grades of years ago .... not available now.
Reduction of sulphur is the greatest cause of lubricating loss in Diesel ... so this is corrected by adding Lubricity additive. Kerosine is not the culprit here.

And yes there is a Anti-Smoking agent available ... but you may have difficulty finding it retail - as its generally only Commercial product.

I can only supply in large quantities ..... of 200 litres minimum - so don't ask !!!!

A lot of hog-wash is talked about diesel and its properties nowadays ..... so there you go .......



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on 18/01/2004 19:23 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

Sorry but I disagree ...... adding Parafin will wax up a diesel faster than ........

Kerosine and petrol were the 'farmers' tricks. These had been superceded by custom designed and used commercial products - easily available and used in extensive quantities by Oil Companies / Traders .....



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

Most of what is being quoted here .... is the old TVO / Petrol engines such as the old single cuylinder Pom-Pom tractor etc.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

It may be possible that someone is providing dilute MDO ..... Marine Diesel Oil .... it is a lower grade than straight Road Diesel. BUT it is also a known fact that some diesels turn off colour when transported to places such as India and the tropics .... I have been requested in the past to test various supplies destined particularly for India precisely for this effect .... a shipment of 30,000 tons of gas-oil sat off port in india for about 3 weeks on the ship and went brown - this was some years ago and we couldn't reproduce the effect in the lab ! It was decided in the end that the ship may not have been cleaned properly from previous cargo and colour contamination had occurred ..... the MDO scenario !!!

All diesels are a high grade of Fuel Oil - real name is Gas Oil and comes in many grades. It can range from dark brown through the usual very pale blue-white - nearly clear.

All higher latitude diesels are different spec in summer to winter - it has to be to have cold weather improved qualities. No trader or oil co. is going to spend the money on additives when they are not needed !! As to use of the winter grade etc. - it doesn't matter when its used - summer or winter and also where !! The only problem is using Summer grade in winter !! as when the temp. approaches -5 C then the filters start blocking up from the wax etc. being deposited out.

Are you having problems with the diesel you have ? Or is it purely colour that is putting you of ?


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[wpsalm]

Alright, thanks you guys for all your help with this question...
Fact is am considering a wallas diesel stove for the boat, these stoves are an automated sealed unit type similar in operation to an eberspacher type furnace my web searches so far have only turned up one complaint that from a fellow who says his continued to malfunction due to the high carbon content of the diesel fuel available in the tropics...from all your replys must assume his problem resulted from something other than fuel quality....Fair winds and following seas..

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