Fuel in Spain and Portugal

[sparetime]

A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months. Pretty difficult for boat and genrator owners! the problems noted are general degradtion of the fuel to problem chemicals an microbial growth.

 

[25931]

A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months. Pretty difficult for boat and genrator owners! the problems noted are general degradtion of the fuel to problem chemicals an microbial growth.

I hope that there is neither light nor water in my fuel tank and the amount of oxygen would depend on the amount of fuel - supposing the tank to be full very little oxygen. The statement is too vague to be of value.

 

[KellysEye]

>A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months.

This is becoming a problem in the UK because imported Russian Diesel has biofuel in it. My understanding is the Diesel is fine in cold weather but clogs up the engine in hot weather, there have been a few articles in the papers about it recently. If you buy diesel check where it comes from.

 

[GrahamM376]

>A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months.

This is becoming a problem in the UK because imported Russian Diesel has biofuel in it. My understanding is the Diesel is fine in cold weather but clogs up the engine in hot weather, there have been a few articles in the papers about it recently. If you buy diesel check where it comes from.

More scaremongering. Not seen anything about it in Portuguese papers or TV news and don't know anyone who's had problems with road diesel here.

 

[geem]

>A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months.

This is becoming a problem in the UK because imported Russian Diesel has biofuel in it. My understanding is the Diesel is fine in cold weather but clogs up the engine in hot weather, there have been a few articles in the papers about it recently. If you buy diesel check where it comes from.

And where did you get those dodgy facts from? The Sun?

 

[Sandy]

A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months. Pretty difficult for boat and genrator owners! the problems noted are general degradtion of the fuel to problem chemicals an microbial growth.

Are they supplying the UK market?

I struggled to use 40 lts last year so I don't think it will be a problem.

After attending the RYA Diesel Engine course, or how to terrify yourself about diesel engines in one day, I have added a drop of Soltron to the tank, but until we see thousands of boats stranded in the sea and the RNLI reporting their volunteers are rushed off their feet because there is a fuel problem or thousands of motor boaters buying sailing boats - I am not sure there is a problem.

 

[KellysEye]

>And where did you get those dodgy facts from? The Sun?

The Times.

>Not seen anything about it in Portuguese papers or TV news and don't know anyone who's had problems with road diesel here.

It is possible Portugal doesn't get it's diesel from Russia and hence no problems.

 

[vyv_cox]

This is becoming a problem in the UK because imported Russian Diesel has biofuel in it. My understanding is the Diesel is fine in cold weather but clogs up the engine in hot weather, there have been a few articles in the papers about it recently. If you buy diesel check where it comes from.

Doesn't seem to be proven according to this article, and not even all of UK. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/uk-britain-diesel-idUKBREA290V920140310

 

[PeterWright]

Any good supplier of diesel for marine use will ensure that it is FAME-free, i.e. blended without the offending bio component for just the reasons the OP correctly cites, whether red or white. This does put a couple of pence on the wholesale price, which will inevitably be passed on to us, the users, but this price premium is nothing like as big as the extra that most marine suppliers pay due to their low annual take, compared to roadside service stations.

If your regular fuel supplier does not make it clear that he stocks FAME-free, it's worth asking - he probably doesn't!

 

[sparetime]

Any good supplier of diesel for marine use will ensure that it is FAME-free, i.e. blended without the offending bio component for just the reasons the OP correctly cites, whether red or white. This does put a couple of pence on the wholesale price, which will inevitably be passed on to us, the users, but this price premium is nothing like as big as the extra that most marine suppliers pay due to their low annual take, compared to roadside service stations.

If your regular fuel supplier does not make it clear that he stocks FAME-free, it's worth asking - he probably doesn't![/QUO


There are some worrying comments coming in. I have a copy of the original letter from the Portuguese supplier. The translation is on my web site www.marine16.co.uk There is water in ALL diesel fuels. It is unavoidable and allowed under the specifications. There is always oxygen in the air in your tank as it is never completely full. There is also oxygen in water; H2O. With no oxygen present you can get anaerobic bacteria that generate sulpuric acid as a by-product. Some tanks are plastic and light passes in. All road diesel and diesel for inland waterways contains a minimum of 7% bio by law. Due to this the distribution network in the UK means that it is not easy to get FAME free diesel. Many marinas only stock blends. For £10 to prevent bug growth in 2000 ltrs of fuel there is no excuse for breaking down with a blocked fuel line due to diesel bug. The Eastern European fuel has long since been used up. Bugs in fuel are a fact of nature, just as they are in every aspect of life. For my own credibilty I have designed diesel products for over 25 years. for 15 years I have designed and developed biocidal systems for preventing bugs in areas such as chemotherapy assemebly units and drug manufaturing plants. No mistakes are allowed in this field of work.

 

[GrahamM376]

There are some worrying comments coming in. I have a copy of the original letter from the Portuguese supplier. The translation is on my web site www.marine16.co.uk There is water in ALL diesel fuels. It is unavoidable and allowed under the specifications. There is always oxygen in the air in your tank as it is never completely full. There is also oxygen in water; H2O. With no oxygen present you can get anaerobic bacteria that generate sulpuric acid as a by-product. Some tanks are plastic and light passes in. All road diesel and diesel for inland waterways contains a minimum of 7% bio by law. Due to this the distribution network in the UK means that it is not easy to get FAME free diesel. Many marinas only stock blends. For £10 to prevent bug growth in 2000 ltrs of fuel there is no excuse for breaking down with a blocked fuel line due to diesel bug. The Eastern European fuel has long since been used up. Bugs in fuel are a fact of nature, just as they are in every aspect of life. For my own credibilty I have designed diesel products for over 25 years. for 15 years I have designed and developed biocidal systems for preventing bugs in areas such as chemotherapy assemebly units and drug manufaturing plants. No mistakes are allowed in this field of work.

I don't doubt some people have problems with bug but, in many cases it's their own fault - leaving part empty tanks for long periods and not turning it over/using and replacing it regularly.

For the last 7 years I've been using white road diesel exclusively from sources which have a large turnover in Portugal, Spain and Gib. For the previous 4 years or so I was using a mixture of French road and UK red. Very rare to come across anyone with fuel bug problems around here, partly I suspect due to higher winter temperatures causing less condensation. Those I know personally who've had bug problems have, without exception, recently arrived from UK and other colder countries.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you buy diesel check where it comes from.

Yeah, I can imagine that in Morrissons
"Excuse me mate- can you tell me where this fuel came from please?"
" yes sir- out of a lorry"
" Oh that's Ok then, 2 litres please"
:encouragement:

 

[SimonJ]

A major fuel supplier in Spain and Portugal has said that user should not store diesel fuel with bio content where there is light, oxygen or water for longer than 3 months. Pretty difficult for boat and genrator owners! the problems noted are general degradtion of the fuel to problem chemicals an microbial growth.

This unfortunately seems to make sense.
EU directive 2009/30/EC included the statement " ...member states may permit the addition of up to 7% FAME". There is apparently no requirement to label it as such. I understand Spain was quick (in 2009) to to take 'advantage' of this. Indeed in 2010 I made a voyage largely under motor in an a Oyster 62 from Majorca having filled the just cleaned fibreglass tanks with diesel. The effect was almost catastrophic - fuel filters blocked every 6-8 hours (fortunately we had a big stock). The filters gummed up with a residue from a foamy compound which seemed to be a reaction with the resin. This result incidentally is well known in USA with gasoline (petrol) which has caused great damage to GP tanks in the US gas guzzlers which have them.
The likelihood is that Portugal now has similar fuel.
Supposedly in UK marine suppliers may have non bio added fuel but when I have refuelled the operator has been unable to tell me the type of fuel. Indeed as I have said the supplier is not obligated to say and possibly may not know. It may be too much bother for a marina to have non bio fuel. It would interesting to get information on this. Unfortunately when dyed red the advice is that you cannot tell from a visual check!
All diesel of course absorbs water given the chance and with the presence of MBG spores from whatever source a bug problem might ensue. Diesel with almost any bio content I am advised is a worse beast again and there are several learned treatises available (including from the RYA) which have ideas on how to deal with it and outline the possible consequences for boaters.
Actual feedback on any problems - if the doom Sayers are right - to replace conjecture will be very useful. If the technical advice is to be believed it may be necessary to change some habits eg do not store fuel in tanks over the winter as it's 'life' as good fuel may expire - this in contrast to leaving tank(s) full to limit water attraction. It is suggested that in older engines some seals may be at risk. The indications are that bio will react extremely adversely with water.
I have regularly used supposedly fresh road fuel for my elderly BUKH for the last couple of years preferring that to possibly old marine diesel which may have been lurking in a near empty marina tank with plenty of moisture & enhanced chances of MBG. This also has the advantage of avoiding having red fuel carried in containers while in foreign parts. No probs for me thus far.