Fuel cell

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The fuel cell in Yachting Monthly in the October edition (page 88) looks interesting. Is it a real alternative to a generator? Does anyone have any real cruising experience of using one? Certainly with solar and a big alternator alongside a fuel cell it looks like a good solution if it performs as stated. Cheaper than a generator, silent, smaller and no noxious gasses.
 
It's the way of the future and I think will be relatively common within a decade; what we need is a few rival manufacturers to bring the price down.

A while ago a space shuttle landed and a fuel cell was accidentally left switched on; for some reason or another this rodgered it, and the astronaut responsible was severely rollocked.

Personally if I'd been fired into space, hung around a bit then gone through re-entry, I'd be pretty chuffed and they know what they can do with their fuel cell, sideways !
 
sailor211 said:
Generator £200
Fuel cell £4000
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Where can you buy a proper diesel built in generator for £200? Or are you comparing to a cheepo portable petrol genny? Tried mine last week ( its actually a Yanmar one so not even cheepo) and the noise and smell made it an unacceptable option IMO.

The great attraction of fuel cells is that they promise decent levels of power with the silence of solar. Problem is the cost and short life.
 
wotayottie said:
The great attraction of fuel cells is that they promise decent levels of power with the silence of solar. Problem is the cost and short life.
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Decent levels of power? Not at sensible prices. A mid-range Efoy, such as the Comfort 140 for around £3500 is only capable of producing a maximum of 6A charge. If you run it day and night for 24 hours, it'll only produce a maximum of 144Ah, and will cost almost £10 in fuel. Add to that the relatively short life expectancy, and fuel cells still look unrealistic for leisure boaters.
 
They are prevalent in mini racing, but that is a very particular application. I had mine running nearly 24/7 for weeks on end to look after the hydraulic autopilot and I can't say enough good things about them (or at least mine) in that application, but I don't think I would get one for a cruiser.

Short life? I don't know. Mine (my ex- actually) has done twice across the Atlantic, plus many many thousands of additional miles and as far as I know it is still working perfectly.
 
Robih said:
"short life expectancy"

Will you elucidate please?
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Certainly. Most current fuel cells have a finite life of around 4000 hours, after which the platinum stack usually needs replacing at considerable cost. The stack starts to degrade earlier than this, and charging performance is likely to progressively drop off after about 3000 hours. There are other potential time-related failure items, too, eg fuel lines can suffer damage from the methanol.

3000 hours sounds a lot, but bear in mind an average mid-range fuel cell might only produce a maximum of 6A charge. If it's run all the time, 3000 hours is only about 18 weeks. And bear in mind the fuel cost would be about £60 a week.

Efoy offer an extra-cost 5 year warranty for leisure users, but repairs are likely to involve shipping the fuel cell back to Efoy, which might not be easy for long-term cruisers.

Fuel cell technology is improving all the time, but I don't think now is a good time for an ordinary leisure boater to buy one.
 
The demand curve is just on the up.... Give it five years and things will be a lot cheaper and better...
 
photodog said:
The demand curve is just on the up.... Give it five years and things will be a lot cheaper and better...
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Better, maybe (but it is pretty mature technology; they've been using these things in space since the 1960s), not so sure about cheaper. They contain elements made from things like platinum, so the material costs are pretty high. The demand for catalytic converters (which contain the same metals) hasn't reduced their cost much.
 
I think they are the way ahead but the technology needs to grow a bit before it crossed the affordability/ usefulness point. Just like a few years ago solar was too expensive for most and now undercuts wind.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Better, maybe (but it is pretty mature technology; they've been using these things in space since the 1960s), not so sure about cheaper. They contain elements made from things like platinum, so the material costs are pretty high. The demand for catalytic converters (which contain the same metals) hasn't reduced their cost much.
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Good point!

But of course better in this case will mean better value as well... So better = cheaper.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Better, maybe (but it is pretty mature technology; they've been using these things in space since the 1960s), not so sure about cheaper. They contain elements made from things like platinum, so the material costs are pretty high. The demand for catalytic converters (which contain the same metals) hasn't reduced their cost much.
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That's my understanding as well. Truly mass production would bring the price down a bit, but there is a hard (and as I understand, quite high) limit based on cost of materials.
 
It's really about getting the kit better... If the lifespan of the stack can be increased then the per unit cost of the electricity would come down... And that's the key isn't it?

Every bit of kit has a finite life on a yacht.... If the average cruiser could get 12 years or so out of the unit... Then it might be as cost effective as a generator... Or even a wind genny solar combo rig...

If you need say 100 ah per day... And the thing can chuck out 10 amps then your running it 10 hours and if the stack can get 5000 hours then you have 500 days use.... Which doesn't sound much but if the average cruiser is on board 40 days a year... And only runs the genny2 days out of thee.... Then the life span is nearly 20 years....

How many people keep a generator 20 years?
 
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