Fuel and Dangerous Substances in harbours and marinas

sarabande

sarabande

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I belong to a small HSE special interest sub group. There is some work being developed on the risks associated with fuel and dangerous substances (could be proper explosives, but also e.g. flour, tyres, etc) being used or un/loaded in harbours. By extension, this could include marinas.

If you have any thought or comments about this:

"
[...]
HSE review of Dangerous Substances in Harbour Areas 1987 - Call for interested parties

HSE is currently undertaking a review of the Dangerous Substances in Harbour Areas Regulations 1987, which govern various aspects of the handling, storage, loading, unloading and carriage of dangerous substances in harbours and harbour areas, including explosives.

The regulations contain requirements to notify entry of dangerous goods into harbours, provisions regulating loading and unloading of dangerous substances, requirements for harbours to put in place emergency arrangements, and licensing requirements for harbours receiving explosives, among other things.

They are significantly out of date so HSE is reviewing them in order to ensure they are aligned with more recent regulatory and legislative changes.

We are keen to hear from stakeholders with experience of the regulations in relation to explosives and explosives licensing, with a view to discussing potential amendments to these sections of the regulations.

"



I am happy to go to PM if you want to discuss first, and equally to coordinate any group reply. (More weight being attached to a presentation from a group of interested stakeholders.)

Topics from the boating community might include:

Fire on board
Fire Brigade response
Marina contingency plans
Harbour Authority contingency plans
Noxious material transhipment
Bulk storage of e.g. tyres, flammable waste
LPG storage and use
Flares and disposal

All ideas are grist to the mill. :)
 
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If your intentions are to add further HSE restictions on us then maybe you'll get short measure.

However if your intention is to find ways of making HSE guidelines simpler and more sensible then good on yer.

One thing I do not wish to see is inland waterways regulations applied to pleasure craft in "salt water" harbours and marinas.
 
I think the only thing yacht folk can comment on is flares and disposal there are many threads on the subject that you can search for. Fires on yachts are very rare, I've only seen two but not in the UK.
 
I have some involvement in what you are discussing.
There is a distinction between the professional and the casual consumer DG while often regulated some circumstances is unregulated in others.
The professional should know the rules, while thee average consumer is usually unaware.

I live on an island, I by my fireworks at a local store and occasionally go to the rod and gun club where everyone has ammo some of whom load there own. Rules here are a bit different from UK but risks are the same
 
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With HSE encouragement, I carried out a full Risk Assessment before getting out of bed this morning. According to the various potential risks perceived, I decided to stay in bed. However, statistically, a huge proportion of people die in bed, so what am I to do?

Really, it is such a shame that common sense is being bred out of people, and instead, empire building bodies like HSE are ruling our lives.
 
>Fires on yachts are very rare

Having said that a number have come along in short order including spreading to a boat alongside.


Boat owners are being warned to pay attention to electrical items and the use of liquids and gas following a fire that destroyed a yacht at Hythe Marina.

Hampshire fire fighters were called to a blazing 38ft yacht last Friday morning and spent two-and-a-half hours tackling the flames.

Crews from Hythe, Beaulieu and Hardley fire stations attended, after being called out at around 5.37am.

No one was aboard at the time and there were no injuries but the cruiser was completely destroyed.

A spokesman for Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service said: 'The most likely cause of the fire is due to the overheating or an electrical fault within a dehumidifier which was on board the boat.

'Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service (HFRS) have seen an increase in boat fires in recent weeks.

'We would advise all boat owners who are getting their boats ready for the sailing season, to pay attention to electrical items and use of liquids and gas.'

Just over a week ago in Hampshire, two boats were badly damaged by a fire which broke out at Premier's Swanwick Marina, on the Hamble River, following some propeller maintenance work.

The blaze, on Saturday 15 March, started on a 35ft Sirius bilge keeler called Layla of Hamble and then spread to Serenity, a Sealine 35.

The owner of Layla had been heating lanolin for his propeller when the lanolin caught alight. He was treated for shock and minor burns to his neck.

Earlier this month two other devastating boat blazes occurred in Dartmouth, Devon.

A charter boat called African Queen was gutted by fire overnight on 10 March in the Dart Estuary, and then just five days later a 25ft Bayliner Blue Storm was destroyed by a blaze at Kingswear on the River Dart.

In both cases, the cause of the fire is believed to be accidential.

Find boat fire safety advice on the HFRS website: www.hantsfire.gov.uk/boat

Read more at http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/536300/warning-to-boat-owners-following-spate-of-fires#hkCtXqJu02mypPA0.99
 
i got that very same e mail today but haven't had chance to read and consider it yet. For us, it actually makes a big difference when using ports on a commercial basis and some of the restrictions currently in place are very limiting and present huge increase in cost for our business. sadly, the chances of changing for our benefit are perhaps limited but will gave a look tomorrow when in the office to see what they are looking for....

i would guess this is directly related to commercial vessels only rather than pleasure boats, could you imagine ABP getting notification of every vessel carrying "hazardous goods" in the southampton port area?
 
NormanS said:
Really, it is such a shame that common sense is being bred out of people, and instead, empire building bodies like HSE are ruling our lives.
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I have seen no evidence to support the claim that the HSE is an empire building body, that it rules our lives or that it displaces common sense. There are many incompetent and fearful people who cite (H&S" as an excuse for all sorts of ludicrous things, and the HSE tries to deal with this sort of nonsense on its myths page: http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/. You may care to note that the most recent panel decision there says that banning children from riding in supermarket trolleys is a matter of common sense, which the HSE generally encourages.

Hooray for the HSE!
 
JumbleDuck said:
OK then, please give three examples of cases in which H&S legislation, correctly applied, has been in opposition to common sense and made life harder.
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I think we're getting dangerously close to Lounge territory here. Suffice to say that thankfully the HSE has very little say as to how we sail our small private boats, and long may that continue.
 
JumbleDuck said:
OK then, please give three examples of cases in which H&S legislation, correctly applied, has been in opposition to common sense and made life harder.
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Do not come it with that officious reply!!

Whilst I accept that the operative phrase here is " correctly applied" the trouble is the dicks who cannot interpret them correctly or in a common sense manner. probably assisted by the legal fraternity who are in it for a quick buck

But in your reply I suspect you are trying to support some of the stupid rules created by the H & S fraternity. So if you want an example, ( i am sure if we applied our minds we could find 3000 not just 3)why not recall the case of the police woman who fell over a step at a garage whilst checking the area.
She started ( but later withdrew) a claim for personal injury on the grounds that the step had not been properly highlighted. It could be argued that she was perfectly correct

But ask the garage owner if H & S legislation made his life easier for a while
 
I think that one thing to note is that, although there may well be some need for refinement of the regulations, the existing regulations would appear to generally work fairly well. The country has many ports, most of which work with a range of dangerous substances, yet major accidents are not common, and a range of minor accidents are generally handled and contained fairly well as far as I can tell.

As a frequent visitor to ports (and with very occasional involvement with port related issues through work) I am pleased to live in a country where these things are regulated for the safety of port workers, visitors and the public, and my impression is that the current arrangements generally strike a reasonable balance between safety and practicality. Long may it continue.
 
The comments made by a chap earlier about fires and in particular boat fires in a marina. Are valid but kind of off topic.
I hope in my car go into town to the home depot. (kind of likeBQ).
I will be heading home with all sorts of dangerous or hazardous materials some of which I may take down to my boat and leave on board at my local marina.
Which is why fire departments regard car fires as particularly hazardous. Boat fires would presumably require the same precautions as would most of your garages.

On my personal boat entering a Harbour or marina the local Harbour master should assume I have a varied assortment of paint petrol gas canisters etcetera. I won't be carrying a commercial quantity of any thing.

There are lots of products which can't be carried on passenger vessel, explosives are just one click example. They are not particularly concerned about the flares or fireworks I just bought and am brining back home.

The guy who runs my local blasting company on the other hand. How does be get his stuff to my island.

In a water taxi, which comes into the local public small vessel dock. With a boat load of fertilizers and blasting caps.

So the question becomes is this ok at the dock you tied up to last night and are just cooking breakfast right beside him perfectly leagalyndischarging explosives for local road building or should this kind of thing be carriedbout in a segregated part of the dock Harbour or marina away from otherbusers
 
Daydream believer said:
Do not come it with that officious reply!!
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Nothing officious intended. Sorry.

Whilst I accept that the operative phrase here is " correctly applied" the trouble is the dicks who cannot interpret them correctly or in a common sense manner. probably assisted by the legal fraternity who are in it for a quick buck
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The world is full of prats who try to justify silly rules with H&S arguments. However, those are prats' rules, not H&S rules, and the HSE goes to a great deal of trouble to dispel the idea that, for example, schoolchildren shouldn't play with conkers.

But in your reply I suspect you are trying to support some of the stupid rules created by the H & S fraternity. So if you want an example, ( i am sure if we applied our minds we could find 3000 not just 3)why not recall the case of the police woman who fell over a step at a garage whilst checking the area.
She started ( but later withdrew) a claim for personal injury on the grounds that the step had not been properly highlighted. It could be argued that she was perfectly correct

But ask the garage owner if H & S legislation made his life easier for a while
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Nothing to do with H&S legislation, but a simple (and ridiculous) civil case involving alleged breach of a duty of care.
 
BERT T said:
And if you still can't find it try another optician.
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It's always interesting to see how many people claim that health and safety has gone mad, is ruining our lives and so on and yet cannot provide a single example to support their claim. Yes, that definitely makes it a Lounge topic, doesn't it?
 
Sarabande,

the only vaguely related risk I can think of is onboard barbecues; if I had a marina berth and someone alongside had one of these home bonfires I'd be alarmed and very peeved.

Perhaps more thought ought to be given to cutting boats on fire loose, and dragging them away from the rest of the boats ?

This would require some sort of alert crew in fire resistant gear etc; so presumably would be better as a specialist sub - branch / team of a few firefighters in each likely station, trained and equipped for this - inc boat -in vulnerable areas like Chichester, Hamble, Cowes, Burnham, Falmouth etc ?

The much more common hazard I've come across in marinas is icy pontoons in winter / Spring - I have nearly gone in myself and last I heard - a long time ago - a local marina had 3 separate fatalities due to people going over the side of pontoons in the dark, in winter time; does this count ?
 
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