Friend breaks his leg in Marina, Legals

[savageseadog]

A friend has broken a leg at a marina. He slipped on the pontoon in the tidal lock. I've known that the pontoon has always been slippery it's very low down and gets very little sun, certainly never gets scrubbed.
I'm not one for the compensation culture but the lock is a pressure situation with lots of turbulence straight in off a fast flowing estuary, crew end up leaping about to get the boat in check.
What does anyone think, if you think you know the marina involved and want to help let me know.

 

[Lakesailor]

He should be more carefull, and take responsibility for his own actions.

 

[DJE]

Very sorry to hear about your friend's accident. I hope he is recovering well. I know of several locks where the pontoons have open mesh metal decking which seems like a much better surface than timber.

I expect one of the "no win no fee" outfits would take up a claim for you. Win or loose the marina's insurance premiums will go up as will their costs for cleaning and/or re-decking the pontoons. Guess who would end up paying these extra costs?

 

[savageseadog]

I'm not directly involved in the incident BTW

 

[DJE]

Of course if it gets legal there is always the chance that the boat's skipper will get dragged in as well.

 

[jimi]

Re: Friend breaks his leg in Marina, Legals

Difficult.

Your friend has to prove negilgence. However I suspect the marina will claim that your friend was aware of the situation and should have exercised care ... and accidents do happen.


What annoyed me was that certain private pontoons became offlimits a couple of years ago because of a similar accident and the accidentee suing the owners. Tends to spoil things for everybody else if a litigatious culture emerges.


Best wishes to your friend.

 

[claymore]

Re: Friend breaks his leg in Marina, Legals

Take a leaf out of Pope MacHurleys book - brave face and a new mobile phone.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: It\'s a can of worms

Who was he crewing for? Had they any knowledge of the hazard?
The victim. Had he any knowledge of the hazard? Would it be reasonable for him to have knowledge of the hazard.
Who's site is it? Did they have knowledge of the hazard? Had they taken any steps to reduce the hazard? Were these steps effective?

It goes on and on. If he sues you might be surprised who's liable.

 

[benjenbav]

I am a lawyer, although this is not my area of law. Speaking purely personally I wouldn't dream of suing in the circumstances described unless there are some very unusual factors but it's a fact of life that many people would.

 

[Mudhook]

All I can say is that if the broken leg was mine I wouldn't dream of sueing anyone. Lots would; that's up to them. If, as a skipper, and the broken leg belonged to one of my crew, I might be wishing I had warned the crew of the slippery pontoon or advised against going on it.

Regards, Mudhook.

 

[cliff]

difficult one but from my limited experience with industrial HSE and so on I would say if the marina had a sign saying something like "Warning Surface liable to be slippery when wet" your friend would not have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun) It is akin to the cleaners in say your local Tesco or Morrisons or whatever - signs up warning customers that the floor may be slippery.

Having said that a friend of mine jumped from a boat onto the finger and went straight through one of the boards - broken leg and multiple lacerations - looked at a claim but was advised it was a waste of time. Each case on it's own merits. I would go talk to one of these "No Win No Fee" outfits.

Another scenario to consider is "was the vessel properly placed before the claimant jumped for the pontoon?" i.e. could the court find the skipper negligent? Many ways it could go.. Remember the marina's insurance will fight it tooth and nail to deter others "having an accident" and claiming for tripping over a loose screw or piece of mooring warp etc
----------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

 

[KevB]

Get a new friend as anyone who even thinks about suing in that situation is a limp wristed arse. Give him a slap and tell him to be accountable for his own actions. With any luck the old Darwin theory will get him next time..

 

[aitchw]

It's called an 'accident'.

They happen and we all think afterwards we could have avoided that. We operate in a hazardous environment almost by definition the minute we decide to go sailing. Just about every surface common to the activity gets slippy. We know that and act accordingly.

It is sad your friend has injured himself and I hope he recovers quickly and without complication but please, accept that it is no more than an unfortunate incident.

 

[CliveSmith]

Re: It\'s a can of worms

[ QUOTE ]
Who was he crewing for? Had they any knowledge of the hazard?
The victim. Had he any knowledge of the hazard? Would it be reasonable for him to have knowledge of the hazard.
Who's site is it? Did they have knowledge of the hazard? Had they taken any steps to reduce the hazard? Were these steps effective?

It goes on and on. If he sues you might be surprised who's liable.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can the guy with the broken leg be a "victim" As was said earlier he should take responsibility for his own actions.

Surely it can't have been a surprise that when sailing things get wet and can be slippery.

Is it the case that now, whatever we do, and whatever happens to us, it's always someone else's responsibility?

 

[AlexL]

Its probably an accident. Despite what the daily Mail and Sun try to imply, to successfully sue someone, that someone needs firstly to have a fairly obvious duty of care, and secondly to be negligent in providing that duty of care.
In this case proving those two is unlikely - a pontoon in a marina being wet and slippery - who'd have thought that! (pretty much every 'reasonable person' on the planet - so there goes plan A)
There is a grey area, which is the 'well lets threaten proceedings and hope for an out of court settlement'. which is where most of the 'no win no fee companies' (note - not generally solicitors firms) have their business. Not a wise thing to do if a) you have a concience and
b) you have future dealings with those concerned. If someone was truly negligent then they deserve to pay compensation and I would expect most reasonable people would be able to have an adult business relationship afterwards. If however someone is trying it on, I would expect the marina concerned to suddenly become very much 'by the book' when dealing with this individual and maybe even deliberatly obtuse.
Unless your freind is something like an airline pilot who will be off work for months, and potentially loose his job - in which case principles take a distant second to financial ruin - I, and most others would advise to go have a pint, and learn a painfull, but valuable lesson!

 

[cliff]

Re: It\'s a can of worms

[ QUOTE ]
Is it the case that now, whatever we do, and whatever happens to us, it's always someone else's responsibility?

[/ QUOTE ]Unfortunately that does seem to be the case these days - always someone else's fault.
----------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

 

[bootscooter]

I'm no legal expert, but I'm wondering if there would be similarities to winter road gritting (stay with me on this! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Our local authority doesn't grit our roads in town because if they did, and someone lost grip and crashed, they'd be liable. Allegedly, if they do not grit (or in this case clean the lock area surface), even if the road is like an ice rink, they are in the clear! I could of course be spouting utter tripe, but this is what I've been told....

Best wishes to your friend for a speedy recovery.

 

[AlexL]

naah - you can't avoid responsiblity of not doing something properly by not doing it at all. The thought process of that argument implies that a the risk is known.
Sounds like the local government making excuses for cocking up!

edit to say that many marinas do not use grit as it causes carnage with gelcoat and teak deks.

 

[duncan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not one for the compensation culture but the lock is a pressure situation with lots of turbulence straight in off a fast flowing estuary, crew end up leaping about to get the boat in check

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in the camp that would suggest that the question of whom he approaches for compensation is more open than might be initially considered. Crew leaping about to keep a boat in check is a situation that someone should be avoiding in the first place; and the risk avoidance list to be gone through here would seem to be a long one - suitable footware, all forces on an individual on a line snubbed via a cleat and in a direct downwards direction etc etc

 

[Lakesailor]

I think this refers to the fact that if snow falls, everyone should be aware that it is hazardous and should they fall they will be negligent themselves.
Should you as a shopkeeper (say) clear the snow and leave a clear pavement which then freezes it could be argued that the pedestrian would not reasonably expect the cleared pavement to be slippery, whereas he would expect the neighbouring snowcovered parts to be dangerous.
So it would be your fault if they fell on the ice, but not the snow.
Maybe.