French Deflagging Question

J

J12345T

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Hi All,

I live in New Zealand and have just bought a boat in Cote d'Azure, France. Gulp.

Long story short, the French broker insists that the costs of de flagging are borne by the buyer. He sent me an invoice for EUR 2000.00 (yes precisely 2000 euro) on his own letterhead (not the brokerage company) and to his personal bank account... Smelling a rat I haven't paid.

My buyers broker here in NZ insists that the seller pays the de flagging costs and indeed our contract specifically states the seller is responsible to provide all documentation necessary to transfer the title.

I'm getting conflicting information. I'm not sure if the French broker is trying to scam me or if there is some other explanation. Any assistance from the experienced members of this forum would be appreciated.

Cheers,

James.
 
Hi James

I bought a French flagged boat earlier this year and the broker applied for the boat to be removed from the French registry - there was no charge to me. It was simply filling in a form and sending the 'orange book' off - it only took a few days.

Cheers
Mark
 
James,

I also bought a boat in France this year and removing from the French Registry was done as part of the sale, all for free. I am not aware of any charges. Find out which office the boat is registered (Cannes, Nice etc) at and then email them (Google Translate will be fine) and ask for an explanation.
 
J12345T said:
Hi All,

I live in New Zealand and have just bought a boat in Cote d'Azure, France. Gulp.

Long story short, the French broker insists that the costs of de flagging are borne by the buyer. He sent me an invoice for EUR 2000.00 (yes precisely 2000 euro) on his own letterhead (not the brokerage company) and to his personal bank account... Smelling a rat I haven't paid.

My buyers broker here in NZ insists that the seller pays the de flagging costs and indeed our contract specifically states the seller is responsible to provide all documentation necessary to transfer the title.

I'm getting conflicting information. I'm not sure if the French broker is trying to scam me or if there is some other explanation. Any assistance from the experienced members of this forum would be appreciated.

Cheers,

James.
Click to expand...
It is normal to provide in the contract that upon completion seller deflags and delivers a certificate/evidence of that - see first sentence of macanderson's post #3 above. But it seems you didn't do that in your contract . You say "our contract specifically states the seller is responsible to provide all documentation necessary to transfer the title" but that is totally separate matter from flagging so it is irrelevant to the question at hand - your NZ broker seems pretty mixed up on that. If your broker was any good he would have got a seller's de-flagging obligation in the contract as a closing condition, which as I say is normal market on cross border boat sales.

So, if there is no obligation in the contract on seller to deflag subsequent to completion, which seems to be the case, then the cost/problem of deflagging is yours not seller's. Obviously.

As regards the broker suggesting €2k, that is a try on. It's not a scam. It's a free world, so he is free to propose €2k in his personal name/bank account and you are free to say no. I can also find you a guy in Cote D'azur who will trim your hedge for €500 for 2 hours work. As others have said, the reflagging process is very simple. You can google it, or find someone to do it for €500.

Which cote d'azur broker, by the way?
 
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Get a hair dryer on those decals , remove them , in the interim period .Re name it too if it’s easily done .
It’s winter folks don,t fly flags while “ winterisation “ occurs .
Google it all as said above ^^^ .———- no rush relax n take your time .
Pressure is on the seller to get off the Fr reg - find out when the next due date for him to be sent a tax invoice is .
Play the “ foreign fool “ in there eyes , drag it on , tap your watch , listen to tick tock tick tock etc in your head .

If you can re - reg it without proof of dereg ie have a look online at SSR part 3 red ensign group ,
A bit naughty I know but who’s asking ?

The previous owner will break cover sooner or later offering to de reg it himself ,send him all the necessary papers ( keep copies ) .
Cost you postage .
Or as others have said diy it .
 
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Thanks All,

I should say the boat is registered in Ajaccio but that shouldn't make any difference.. I'll be registering the boat in New Zealand, keeping her in the Med for next season before shipping home.

This pretty much confirms my 'logic' in that it is in the sellers interest to de reg the boat as otherwise he'll be sent the next tax bill.. No tax on that sort of thing in NZ (plenty of other taxes though) but not for owning a boat...

Hindsight is wonderful and yes a specific de flagging clause would have been the correct thing to do. I'll see how I get on and name and shame in due course..

Cheers,

James.
 
Here is a link to the Douanne who will be your point of contact for the deregistration

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/Portals/0...rs/navigation-liste-des-bureaux-de-douane.pdf

Personally we have found the French wonderfully helpful and friendly. If you try to make them do things your way they will resist, if you accept their way then they will go out of their way. This has held true for us buying both a boat and an apartment on the Coté d’Azur.
 
Portofino said:
A bit naughty I know but who’s asking ?
Click to expand...
Possibly the French authorities, after the previous owner declares that the boat is not his own anymore and gives them the whereabouts of the new owner?
I don't know how likely this scenario is - probably not much.
But risks aside, I can't see reasons to strengthen even further the (rather understandable, I hasten to add) Joe Public view that pleasure boaters are a dodgy lot... :ambivalence:
 
Sybarite said:
Would you like to compare mooring charges?
Click to expand...

Ah that's different! I bought a 30 year lease and keep a 42 footer on a pontoon for the equivalent of €800 and change for a year. Cost was €25k till 2045 ... the one next door just sold for €25k with just 16 years left so good investment all round. Prices are rather better at the best end of the French coast! When I kept a boat up the Solent way it was rather more ... and the sun didn't shine much either! My comment about the French was in reference to all the business dealings I've had with French people regarding boats!
 
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