Force 5 or more - To be a skipper - Sounds reasonable

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brokentiller

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There is one thing we cannot control its the weather. Its the most important factor for any sailing yacht skipper. Should it be compulsory that anything above day skipper should include 6 hours in force five and or more. This could be done by candidates getting their qualifications but if the wether dosnt produce at the time They should be limited to only sail in moderate conditions and no more than three miles offshore until they have been observed in more than a force 5 for 6 hours.
I know this is difficult - But isnt that the point - And what of our concience - Are we sending inexperienced skippers to sea just because it isnt convienient for sailing schools.
 
Why Force 5, surely it should be a proper bit of bad weather (at least F7)

and even this ignores the effects of tidal rips and wind against tide effects
 
I just don't think you can. I understand what you mean, but RYA cert's still aren't a licence (thank heaven) to sail. Sailing in heavy weather depends so much on other factors; sea state, tides, temperature etc etc etc etc that I am not sure it can even BE taught.

Afterall, it's just something we all have to learn and deal with when the time comes. Would you fail somebody if they were frightened? That would have nearly everybody without a ticket. I say, just get out there and take it as it comes, and blummin deal with it.

Oh yeah, we're not sending anybody out to sea after going to sea school, most sailors I know (blummin good ones too) have never been to such a place!
 
Applications are invited for positions in the new Beaufort Enforcement Unit. A copy of the 14 volumes of regulations are available upon request.
 
.... and it depends on the boat. Our current boat loves a 5 - 6, our last boat found ( or I did!) a F6 a bit of a challenge.

Apply the same argument to a small 22ft trailer sailer and then a big heavy HR and the rules change again.
 
What do I do? I haven't got Dazed Kipper, am I banned from going out if there is any weather?
I have never been to a Sailing School either.
I don't remember being sent out there by anyone.
What rescue data points to this being a major factor in death or injury?

I think this post is all about nannying (again).
 
Hold on, two completely different points here.

[ QUOTE ]
"anything above day skipper should include 6 hours in force five and or more"

[/ QUOTE ] - well, maybe. Interesting idea and I'd have been interested in a bit of heavier weather experience on my own Coastal skipper course. Though of course this probably isn't actually terribly practical. But interesting, nonetheless. But...

[ QUOTE ]
"They should be limited to only sail in moderate conditions and no more than three miles offshore until they have been observed in more than a force 5 for 6 hours"

[/ QUOTE ] - this is a completely different point, totally against the "anyone is free to go and sail anything anywhere if they feel up to it" ethos which characterises sailing - at the moment at least - and opens the whole regulation can of worms again.

I'm sorry a potentially interesting point about heavy weather experience will be lost in the regulation debate, which surely no-one who actually sails wants.

Cheers
Patrick
 
[ QUOTE ]
...They should be limited to only sail in moderate conditions and no more than three miles offshore until they have been observed in more than a force 5 for 6 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not! No way! Next I know they'll ban me from crossing the road until I've got my Green Cross Certificate with full City Endorsement.
 
quote
They should be limited to only sail in moderate conditions and no more than three miles offshore until they have been observed in more than a force 5 for 6 hours. quote

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The geatest danger a boat encounters is land. If you are a beginer then stay a lot more than three miles from land. If experienced, then you know why.
 
6 hours in a >F5 can hardly be called experience, why do you think such a limiting event should be sufficient? F6 across tide in Southampton water is hardly the same thing as F6 wind against tide at the Needles, the latter is worthwhile experience (you might conclude you won't repeat it!) the former achieves nothing other than practicing puting in a reef in untesting conditions.
 
You need to think through very carefully what you are proposing, the problem does not lie with the type of person who subscribes to RYA training courses, but more important why do you wish to impose more needless regulation, there is no boat licence so what would be the point.
 
You need to find someone you know who spells anorak - anorack, and has been to the Isles of Scilly, who isn't a teetotaler, who has a haughty disregard for anyone 'restoring' things.......
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm this post has the distinct aroma of Troll.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a new user with the name "fishinthehead" stinks of something
 
The root of the problem is our assertion that holding a RYA Day Skipper "qualifies" us to skipper a yacht, for a day sail.

This is a broad assumption, that can not be justified by the current method of certification.

In reality, the Day Skipper course is no more than an entry level programme of training, similar to taking driving lessons. The real learning curve starts when you have no instructor onboard.

To align weather conditions to the Day Skipper certificate is nothing more than farcical. Rather like not being able to drive a car when it is raining.

The solution is less obsession with bits of paper that say you are qualifed, and more acceptrance that being a skipper is a life long learning process that will inevitabilty mean mistakes are made before competence is achieved. And that includes sailing in a stronger wind that either you or the vessel can not cope with.
 
So you've done your 6 hrs on Heaton park lake (Manchester)and your 13 week night school course. Now you want to go deep sea. Do You think you are now relay going to be able to cope in a F9 for 3 days.
 
Like many things today, people want to learn faster


There is a reasonable way of thinking that you can circumvent some years of learning, by teaching with someone that really knows what they are doing.

How you'd go about actually providing the weather to coincide with a training course is another matter.

You could always take them off Portland Bill in a spring tide in wind against tide conditions, but that's not really an ideal solution, or going to a school in North Sea in winter, and hoping for suitable conditions

So, realistically, there is no way of teaching rough weather conditions, other than experience
 
I've had this conversation with trainers before. They'd love to provide rough weather training, and I'd happily do the same to people I thought could cope with it. The reality is, unless they have jobs where they can get on the water at 24 hours notice or less, and the school don't have other training already booked, it will never happen

Usually, it's down to experience, or just being in right place at right time

In some ways it's a shame, as rough weather courses would teach people a lot quite quickly
 
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