For those that charter - boat age question

Whitelighter

Whitelighter

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Is there a charter market for older boats but in good condition.
I’m looking at 45-50 foot catamarans.

New I’m covered but they are pricey.

Used I’m looking at two models: lagoon 500 in 5 cabin config and the Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 in Quattro config. The Lagoon is from 2007-09 range and the Helia from 2014-15.

I’d prefer the Lagoon because the layout is better, I think the finish is a bit better as it was their flagship at the time and there is more boat.

My question is which would charter better? They are the same value to buy so I’m guessing the charter rate would be about the same. Might I find more charters for the Lagoon as it sleeps 10 + crew or would people be wary of a 12 year old + boat?

I’d upgrade things like nav, rib, water toys and add a hilow platform
 
Whitelighter said:
Is there a charter market for older boats but in good condition.
I’m looking at 45-50 foot catamarans.

New I’m covered but they are pricey.

Used I’m looking at two models: lagoon 500 in 5 cabin config and the Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 in Quattro config. The Lagoon is from 2007-09 range and the Helia from 2014-15.

I’d prefer the Lagoon because the layout is better, I think the finish is a bit better as it was their flagship at the time and there is more boat.

My question is which would charter better? They are the same value to buy so I’m guessing the charter rate would be about the same. Might I find more charters for the Lagoon as it sleeps 10 + crew or would people be wary of a 12 year old + boat?

I’d upgrade things like nav, rib, water toys and add a hilow platform
Click to expand...

You need to look at the market where your gonna put it into charter..

In some markets.. (I’m thinking western canada for instance...). There is a large number of surprisingly elderly yachts on the market...

Most markets will support a range of ages, Ive certainly chartered modestly (ie 4 or 5 year old) yachts in the BVI... as well as brand new one...

But the best choice is always going to come down to that regional market I think... and a good look at how older yachts are priced...

So you need to look at the local market you want to place the boat into...
 
Will you charter yourself or via an established company? Some companies may not take older boats.

That said we are in the midst of purchasing a boat out of charter (privately owned but managed by the co for 12yrs) with a small family run charter in Croatia. Boat is 2005 and still has successful seasons but the charter co doesn't heavily market, or cut prices to rent out the boats last minute and instead trades on a reputation with repeat and word of mouth bookings for its impeccably maintained and upgraded boats regardless of age plus great and personal service and generally finds careful and respectful charterers.

Certainly its customers seem to be happier with older boats when offset by equipment/maintenance/attitude
 
Preferably I’d use a management company.
Boat would be upgraded where required, but as a minimum:

New high quality spring mattresses all round
New ulholstery including loungers etc
Lifting swim platform for tender/beach use
Larger high power rib
Collection of water toys: paddle boards, wake board, ringos/towables etc

Tempted not worry too much about sail wardrobe as I gather most cat charters at this size are looking for lounging/toys rather than performance sailing (or at least that’s what I look for)
 
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A Lagoon 500 is a BIG yacht and unless you are considering crewed charter is going to be a real handful for anyone who has not skippered something of that size (does it have bow thrusters). How many people do you know who have, ever, skippered a 50' cat, and Lagoons are the biggest of cats. The FP is much more manageable - but you would still need to be sure of the skills of the charter party.

Sailing them is not the issue - docking is where the skill is needed.

You are not going to get many of your optional beach toys and 2 tenders on the FP.

Jonathan
 
There are plenty of companies out that there that specialise in managing the charter of other people's boats. Why not talk to a couple in the sort of area you are looking at and see what they have to say?

Also have a look around and see what is available to charter in the area. If no one is offering a boat like that then there probably isn't a market. At that size you are likely to be looking at crewed charters so you have to allow for that when selecting the layout - it is likely to take out one of your cabins
 
Thanks both.

Only 1 tender - just a decent size (3m) with the ability to tow skiers/toys.
Yes 50ft is big - but not unmanageable I don’t think

Looking around and Croatia seems to have a lot of big cats for charter as does Mallorca, though there are more 45-46 fat boats than there are 50ft but then I guess that’s to be expected due to the costs

Both are available with fore peak crew cabins - one on the FP two on the lagoon

In terms of layout and space for the budget the lagoon is preferable as it’s got more room for toys and can be more easily self sufficient with space for double gensets, high capacity AC etc etc
 
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If the charter companies have on line booking you may be able to get a good idea of how well each type charters - typically it is the ability to fill the weeks outside the peak season that makes the difference in profitability.

In answer to the question of age I don't think the age per se will make much of a difference but there may be higher costs associated with keeping the older boat up to the required standard and it will also depend on the history of the boats. A boat that has had 10 years in a charter fleet is likely to be a lot more tired than one that has been in private ownership
 
photodog said:
You need to look at the market where your gonna put it into charter..

In some markets.. (I’m thinking western canada for instance...). There is a large number of surprisingly elderly yachts on the market...

Most markets will support a range of ages, Ive certainly chartered modestly (ie 4 or 5 year old) yachts in the BVI... as well as brand new one...

But the best choice is always going to come down to that regional market I think... and a good look at how older yachts are priced...

So you need to look at the local market you want to place the boat into...
Click to expand...

yeah - talk to the management company - what boat would THEY want to offer is the question. When i rented my boat out, the charter co was very clear that the client is "theirs", perhaps returning year after year to different boat each time - not "yours" so much .... so again, if they're the right stuff they will advise and help with refit eg using local suppliers who can fix/replace it
 
oh and the more "known" manufacturers gotta be the way to go I think for resale and hence presumably for charter. But not my/our opinion that counts so much. FontaineP is just such a commodity i would go with that.

I would like some link to clever dinghy lift-up stuff?
 
t21 said:
oh and the more "known" manufacturers gotta be the way to go I think for resale and hence presumably for charter. But not my/our opinion that counts so much. FontaineP is just such a commodity i would go with that.

I would like some link to clever dinghy lift-up stuff?
Click to expand...

I agree to a point.

But surely you aren’t suggest lagoon are not well known.

I should also mention that the boat will also be used by us privately rather than run solely as a full time charter business only.

Please don’t start to comment/guess on vat and tax btw.

Tender lift kit here http://www.tenderlift.net/lib/Brochure LGM 2018.pdf
 
I bareboat chartered my 44ft Privilege cat in the BVI from brand new until 6 years old. When new the boat chartered in excess of 35 weeks each year but by the time it was 6 years old it was less than 20 weeks. However, I then ran it as crewed charter for a couple of years and nobody gave a damn how old the boat was, it only mattered how good it looked and how well it was marketed. Great times.

So if you are planning on crewing yourself or having a professional crew aboard I think a 50 ft Lagoon will do very well providing it is well maintained and the crew pamper the guests.

One more thing... I think you'll need a bigger tender. On a boat that size something with a centre console and maybe a 50 hp engine would be usual.
 
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