Follow up question to MoodyNicks' on furled genoa

[Fergus]

I have a cutter stay which is usually not rigged to avoid tacking problems with the genoa. Masthead rig with running checkstays. So when to use the cutter sail (haven't done so far!)?

Close hauled with the genny or on its own in heavier wind?
Close reach with the genny? (probably only if for a long time)
Beam reach with genny (would a cruising chute not work better - could I use it with the chute as well?)
Running with heavy wind?

Should really experiment myself but wanted to know others' opinions as well!

 

[Robin]

I have a cutter stay which is usually not rigged to avoid tacking problems with the genoa. Masthead rig with running checkstays. So when to use the cutter sail (haven't done so far!)?

This is the point I was trying to make too in the previous post, great idea in theory or for long passages but for general use too much trouble. In our case if this stay is rigged it makes tacking the genoa a PITA plus we cannot have our Zodiac stowed on deck, because whilst it fits inside the stay it also sits over the sheet tracks blocking their use.

However if you do use the staysail and it isn't quite enough area, the smallest amount of unfurled genoa in addition seems to give quite a boost as it funnels air over it going from a reach to a beat. Off the wind I think it is more of a nuisance than a help to have both sails set although maybe as a long distance downwind double headsail rig with no main it would be useful. In heavy weather downwind I'm happy to use a rolled genoa and no main although that said we did one run home from Cherbourg in F8 with a triple reefed main as well as the rolled genoa. The only reason then for the main was we left with it up and no reefs and we can reef it from the cockpit but need to go on deck to drop it completely.

Like I said in the previous post and you have now also, in practice it doesn't get used much if at all. That said we have a very good roller genoa and powerful sheet winches so don't maybe have the same problems as Nick.

 

[Twister_Ken]

good article here

http://www.allatsea.net/article/February_2009/Staysails

 

[Fergus]

Thanks Ken!

 

[Fergus]

Here is something I found..

http://www.bethandevans.com/sail_combinations.htm

 

[Fergus]

and another..
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship/6291-how-do-you-tack-cutter.html

 

[tudorsailor]

I found this staysail advice somewhere - I think it was on the Island Packet Site I have a staysail and like the sail options it offer.

Staysail
The staysail plays three roles. First, it augments sail power. Second, in the overall cutter system, it helps break total sail area down into smaller working components for ease of handling. Third, these smaller sail units allow for different combinations, giving the sailor a variety of options for different conditions.
As part of the overall sail power, the staysail is most useful in the middle range of reaching angles, from a close reach to the point where the wind is slightly aft of the beam (50-130 degrees apparent wind angle). As the boat sails at broader angles, the blanket of the mainsail as it is eased out, limits the effectiveness of the staysail. Eventually, the staysail is hidden behind the mainsail. At closer angles, when sailing to windward, the staysail can augment horsepower, but one needs to be careful. As the headsail, staysail, and mainsail are trimmed in, the gap (slot) between them narrows, and they begin to affect each other. In lighter conditions (under 10-12knots apparent), the staysail may well inhibit, not help, performance upwind. In the middle ranges, the staysail may help, depending on factors like sail shape and sheeting angle. Experiment and see what works. In windy conditions, as the mainsail has to be eased, furling the staysail will allow the main sail to breathe and reduce back-winding, helping keep the boat on its feet.
In short, the optimum conditions for the staysail when adding horsepower, is at apparent wind angles of 50-130, with a minimum apparent wind velocity of 10-12 knots. When it gets windy, the staysail is the perfect sail. Either in combination with a partially furled yankee and a reefed mainsail, the staysail provides plenty of power. Various combinations of reefs and headsail size allow the boat to be balanced in every condition. Many owners find the staysail, or a staysail and a reefed mainsail to be a good combination when motor sailing upwind. It provides drive without creating too much heel, and helps steady the boat’s motion. (Never motor straight upwind with flogging sails!)
Trim of the staysail is really no different than any other headsail. When reaching, keep in mind the first rule of sail trim: “when in doubt, let it out.” Most sailors tend to over-trim. Make sure the sail is eased to the point of luffing, then trimmed to just barely remove luff. The lead position should follow the clew, moving slightly forward. Upwind, trim in tight, but be careful. When looking up the sails from the aft quarter, the slot between the three sails should be roughly parallel. The Yankee should be trimmed in almost to the spreader; the staysail should be trimmed to match this profile. Make sure the lead is not too far forward. If the lead is too far forward the foot of the sail will be round and full. This will just create back winding in the mainsail. Drop the lead aft until the foot of the staysail is flat.


I have a staysail. Tacking the yankee is not a problem if the staysail is out. The staysail helps lead the yankee through the gap. If the staysail is furled, then yes tacking the yankee is a bit of the pain. It is best to furl the yankee a bit before tacking and then unfurl after the tack.

Have a go with your staysail. You might like it!

TudorDoc

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Winches

... we have a very good roller genoa and powerful sheet winches so don't maybe have the same problems as Nick.

We have 54ST's hand cranked by me.

 

[Robin]

We have 54ST's hand cranked by me.

More spinach required then?

Generally I do the cranking (Lewmar 52STs but slightly smaller genoa area) whilst SWMBO plays the bus pass card and tacks when it is windy, and yes it does get hard to get the last bit in at times - most usually because there is still too much sail out! I tend to reef the main first and leave the full genoa until after the first reef in the main, however for shortish upwind legs when I reef the genoa more and leave the main full it does winch in more easily, message here maybe?