Folkboat longevity

[Seajet]

I really like Folkboats and have sailed a fair few varying types from a near flush deck stripped out racer ( Wind Willow at Falmouth ) - wonderful - to a grp Varne - maybe not quite so wonderful.

I see they are often mentioned as restoration projects here, obviously for the skilled and brave sort of restorer.

However didn't I read somewhere that the original East German wooden examples were designed and built with a finite lifespan in mind, presumably for economy ?

This if true would seem to make building a whole new boat probably easier & cheaper than restoring anything but a really good old wooden one ?

I suppose with a restoration one can at least do a bit at a time as time and funds allow, but I wonder if it would be more realistic to build new ?

I say this as someone who hates seeing old boats neglected, just struck by how easy it would be to take on a ' project ' which ends up like the Forth bridge...

 

[NormanS]

I really like Folkboats and have sailed a fair few varying types from a near flush deck stripped out racer ( Wind Willow at Falmouth ) - wonderful - to a grp Varne - maybe not quite so wonderful.

I see they are often mentioned as restoration projects here, obviously for the skilled and brave sort of restorer.

However didn't I read somewhere that the oritginal East German wooden examples were designed and built with a finite lifespan in mind, presumably for economy ?

This if true would seem to make building a whole new boat probably easier & cheaper than restoring anything but a really good old wooden one ?

I suppose with a restoration one can at least do a bit at a time as time and funds allow, but I wonder if it would be more realistic to build new ?

I say this as someone who hates seeing old boats neglected, just struck by how easy it would be to take on a ' project ' which ends up like the Forth bridge...

I built one many years ago, with strip planking. Even as I was building her, I was thinking that with edge nailing, and glue, she would not be easy to repair. Great boats though.

 

[DownWest]

The second Jester was cold moulded. You would have to be a bit traditional to build a plank on frame now.

 

[WilliamUK]

Could have sworn the original Folkboats were Swedish.
Interesting idea though. I will be following this discussion.


As a side note, while the name "folkboat" is nice, it sounds a bit flat compared to the Scandinavian pronunciation. More like folka-bot. Nice ring to it.

 

[Kukri]

The Folkboat was, like the camel, designed by a committee, but with happier results. The Scandinavian Yacht Racing Union held a competition for a design for a small simple boat, didn't like any of the entries, and cribbed ideas off most of them, threw the pile of drawings at Tord Sunden, and the result, in 1942, was the Folkboat.

I recall my father saying that when the first Folkboats appeared in Britain he and his friends remarked "If they are all right, we must be all wrong!" - referring to the light displacement and clinker construction.

 

[Eyore]

Very unfair to suggest that the east German built ones were anything but well built. They were certainly built to a budget but then again what boat of that size in the 60's wasn't?
They were mahogany strip planked , nailed edge on edge and glued, on steamed oak frames and built to a very high standard of workmanship. The decks and cabin rook were yellow pine and the superstructure and coamings ,mahogany. The east German ones had a raised dog house and higher superstructure than British or Scandanavian versions being more cruiser orientated. They were pretty competitive against their racier cousins in anything other than light airs.
To my mind those east German folkboats were as well built as anything from a British yard at the time and their longevity is solely down to their ownership and maintenance rather than their construction.
To build a Folkboat today ,identical to the east German ones would be hugely costly and would never be as viable as restoring a reasonably good original. Unfortunately there are not that many good originals around these days. They are superb boats and well worth cherishing.

Here is a half model I have on the wall at home of my old one, FB 408 Sasha, built by Eikboom, Rostock in 1968.

 

[Seajet]

Just for interest, does anyone know what happened to John Fosters' lovely low coachroof example ' Wind Willow ', last seen ( by me ) at Falmouth some years ago ?

 

[Seajet]

Could have sworn the original Folkboats were Swedish.

Sorry I phrased t badly, though I think a lot of the earlier ones were East German ?

 

[Kukri]

There are two things going on with an older Folkboat - and this applies to Stellas as well.

First, if a boat is raced hard, the stresses on her hull are much bigger and she will "work" and start to leak much sooner than a boat used for gentle cruising.

Second, the materials used are the "everyday" ones, not teak, etc. Any fresh water leaks from the deck need to be dealt with, pronto.

What this means is that if a boat is zealously maintained and "kept up to the mark", as, in particular, many Stellas are, she will last as long as anything else, but if she is not, she will go downhill.

 

[jamie N]

This thread is extremely personal to me right now as I'm the owner of 2 wooden Folkboats, one East German and the other a Clyde built version!
The Clyde boat was purchased as a project that was going to be completed by the boatbuilder from whom I'd bought it. Unfortunately, the guy rediscovered a bottle and the boat was never going to be completed, indeed it was being damaged during it's latter stages there. I took a deep breath, cut my losses, and removed it from the yard, brought it up to Inverness and set about 'doing it up'. I achieved a certain amount, up to the next stage of engaging with the services of a shipwright, where 'we'd' complete the outstanding works. This would mean the man who knew what he was doing, having me as a labourer, with I think around about a fortnights work. Cost to be around about 3K. At this time a post came up about a boat available in Campbelltown for 2.5K, with trailer. My wife agreed that this was a better option 'for right mow', thus we went for this one after viewing her. This is Stakkr, an East German built, probably mid 1960's Folkboat. She's superbly built I feel, and was an instant plug and play, generally, although we've yet to sail her due to a motor issue, which is curious rather than catastrophic, but she does feel extremely strong, and tight if you see my meaning!
Both boats are carvel, 'Islander' from the Clyde being allegedly constructed of pitched pine from a Glasgow dance floor. The rub of it is, that I'm now in the predicament of having 2 boats, neither of which were bought for a resale value by the way, but with 1 boat ready to go and in the water, with the other still requiring a serious investment to get it to that stage, what's the best thing to do; spend 3K and then perhaps be able to sell her for 3K and lose the amount thus far spent on her? Scrapping her is almost unthinkable, although there is possibly a couple of K in her with sails, keel, rig, trailer and engine to sell on, perhaps even the wood.
Any project involving a wooden boat, with wooden spars also, will always end up as a Forth rail Bridge effort, (road bridge actually right now!), so that shouldn't be unexpected, indeed shouldn't it be part of why one buys these boats?
Please excuse the fact that I'm currently unable to post pictures due to my present location, but if someone does want a project, with a known and logical end point, do contact me. If not, it's more of the ignoring the wife when she broaches the subject; we've all been there!

 

[Seajet]

Jamie N,

sorry to hear of your tribulations.

All I can say is that for sailing in general and particularly for the branch of it recognised by this forum, people such as yourself are the very life blood, stuff the trendy dayglo brigade - it is people like yourself who will be thanked by future generations.

I hope it works out for you and your boats.

 

[Eyore]

Jamie N,

sorry to hear of your tribulations.

All I can say is that for sailing in general and particularly for the branch of it recognised by this forum, people such as yourself are the very life blood, stuff the trendy dayglo brigade - it is people like yourself who will be thanked by future generations.

I hope it works out for you and your boats.

Hear, hear. +1

 

[Tam Lin]

Is the extra boat costing you money just to stand in a yard? If so I would cut your losses and put her on eBay and take what you can get. If you spend more money on her then there is no guarantee that you will get it back and you will have all the hassle of doing the work when you could be out sailing!

 

[PhillM]

I'm with Tam Lin on this one. I think you have to pick a boat and stick with it. Otherwise you wont every get out on the water and eventually you will start to wonder why you are bothering.

A part done project isn't going to get you much. I guess you are not totally money motivated - otherwise you wouldn't be playing around with wooden boats! So, is there are charity, sea scouts, etc who could benefit from the project? Perhaps even a local school would like a woodwork project for the kids to complete?

You could also ask if the shipwright knows anyone to buy the first one from you - he has a vested interest in getting her a new owner, he could end up getting paid to do the work.

Al in all, I think you have to make a decision and stick with it.

 

[zikzik]

Jamie N,

sorry to hear of your tribulations.

All I can say is that for sailing in general and particularly for the branch of it recognised by this forum, people such as yourself are the very life blood, stuff the trendy dayglo brigade - it is people like yourself who will be thanked by future generations.

I hope it works out for you and your boats.

PhillM
"You could also ask if the shipwright knows anyone to buy the first one from you - he has a vested interest in getting her a new owner, he could end up getting paid to do the work".

Well said Seajet

You can't really love two boats. At least, I have tried and couldn't. Have a word with your shipwright as PhillM suggests.

 

[jamie N]

A part done project isn't going to get you much. I guess you are not totally money motivated - otherwise you wouldn't be playing around with wooden boats! So, is there are charity, sea scouts, etc who could benefit from the project? Perhaps even a local school would like a woodwork project for the kids to complete?

Thanks for the very supportive posts! PhillM, you've hit plan A on my return in fact, which is to attempt to divest myself of the boat in a phillanthropic manner (I wish!) so to speak. The money's basically irrelevant as it's all been paid out already, and it is better for her to have a good home and future, than to rot. To a school, or to sea scouts would be great and has been (sort of) the plan since being away at work again. One issue is that I live in a relatively rural area where there aren't that many schools or associations to be approaching, but it is a good choice.
The other option is to take a big breath in, and to spend the money and time on her, knowing that I'll not recoup what I've put in, in total, then sell her as a restored, going concern. To be more accurate, I'll spend 3K on her in rebuilding, and hopefully sell for a bit more when she's done, to recoup a bit of dosh, even a sense of satisfaction.

Seajet; the only ''day-glo'' part of me is my nose on leave!

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Had one in the early 70s ... sailed like a witch, went to weather like a knife, sailed herself half the time, extremely wet ... you really need a pointed head and pointed feet!

 

[Iain C]

Seajet

You've said this stuff about Dayglo many times on the forum and I think you need correcting!

Dayglo is no longer trendy!

If you turned up at a dinghy sailing club in a Dayglo wetsuit there would be much guffawing and extracting of the Michael. It would be similar to stepping out onto the pistes in a green and pink Nevica all in one with a bobble hat on and some 2.5m skis! Dayglo went out in the 1980s to 1990s.

My 49er actually has some Dayglo on the sails...all the tapes on the main and jib are Dayglo yellow. I've never liked this, however it's a class thing from a "single loft" supplier, and without wishing to worry you the 49er was launched in 1996, nearly twenty years ago! The new girly version, launched a couple of years ago, the 49er FX, has blue highlights, as the girls were about as likely to want to sail a boat with Dayglo trim on their sails, as they were to turn up on the start line sporting perms and wetsuits with shoulder pads.

May I humbly suggest that you perhaps get with the times and refer to your victims as the "Zhik brigade" similar. It is 2014, dontcha know.

Gotta go, my phone battery is about to run out. Hang on, weren't we here in 1995 too?

 

[PhillM]

Seajet

You've said this stuff about Dayglo many times on the forum and I think you need correcting!

Dayglo is no longer trendy!

If you turned up at a dinghy sailing club in a Dayglo wetsuit there would be much guffawing and extracting of the Michael. It would be similar to stepping out onto the pistes in a green and pink Nevica all in one with a bobble hat on and some 2.5m skis! Dayglo went out in the 1980s to 1990s.

My 49er actually has some Dayglo on the sails...all the tapes on the main and jib are Dayglo yellow. I've never liked this, however it's a class thing from a "single loft" supplier, and without wishing to worry you the 49er was launched in 1996, nearly twenty years ago! The new girly version, launched a couple of years ago, the 49er FX, has blue highlights, as the girls were about as likely to want to sail a boat with Dayglo trim on their sails, as they were to turn up on the start line sporting perms and wetsuits with shoulder pads.

May I humbly suggest that you perhaps get with the times and refer to your victims as the "Zhik brigade" similar. It is 2014, dontcha know.

Gotta go, my phone battery is about to run out. Hang on, weren't we here in 1995 too?

in the 1990's my pohone could last for a week. My iphone doesn't make a day. "Its a portable Jim, just not how we know it."

 

[Seajet]

Seajet

You've said this stuff about Dayglo many times on the forum and I think you need correcting!

Dayglo is no longer trendy!

If you turned up at a dinghy sailing club in a Dayglo wetsuit there would be much guffawing and extracting of the Michael. It would be similar to stepping out onto the pistes in a green and pink Nevica all in one with a bobble hat on and some 2.5m skis! Dayglo went out in the 1980s to 1990s.

My 49er actually has some Dayglo on the sails...all the tapes on the main and jib are Dayglo yellow. I've never liked this, however it's a class thing from a "single loft" supplier, and without wishing to worry you the 49er was launched in 1996, nearly twenty years ago! The new girly version, launched a couple of years ago, the 49er FX, has blue highlights, as the girls were about as likely to want to sail a boat with Dayglo trim on their sails, as they were to turn up on the start line sporting perms and wetsuits with shoulder pads.

May I humbly suggest that you perhaps get with the times and refer to your victims as the "Zhik brigade" similar. It is 2014, dontcha know.

Gotta go, my phone battery is about to run out. Hang on, weren't we here in 1995 too?

Iain,

I use ' dayglo ' as a generic term for trendy wally; you know the type, highlights in the hair, talking much too loudly - usually about themselves - and apparently always called ' Jamie ' - people inc yourself seem to catch on to what I mean !