Flying a flag

[andylipsberg]

Hi there, probably not a typical question, but which flag to fly on a deregistered (deflagged) sailboat and where during a delivery. Any etiquette on that?
Or you fly none in that case?

 

[The Q]

I don't know about other countries, but you don't have to be a registered boat in the UK to fly the Red Ensign, so if you're leaving the UK to be registered elsewhere I'd fly the Red on the stern until you got to your destination.

 

[Tranona]

Depends on the scenario. In the UK there is no need to fly any flag within territorial waters. However if you are going outside the UK, or the boat is in another state, their rules will apply. If you are moving from one state to another then effectively that is not possible for an unregistered boat.

So not a question of etiquette, but of law.

 

[VicS]

Hi there, probably not a typical question, but which flag to fly on a deregistered (deflagged) sailboat and where during a delivery. Any etiquette on that?
Or you fly none in that case?

You might find the info on this page helpful
Flag etiquette | RYA
but the full details are in the RYA book mentioned there but which is only available for download to RYA members

 

[jwilson]

As Tranona says, not flag etiquette but law. An unregistered boat in the UK should not leave UK territorial waters. Most other countries have compulsory registration, unless the boat is already registered somewhere else.

 

[[70521]]

Has anybody ever been boarded by the flag police in this or any other state?

 

[Portland Billy]

To be pedantic !
You don't mean which 'flag' to 'fly' , but which ensign to wear.

 

[LittleSister]

To be pedantic !
You don't mean which 'flag' to 'fly' , but which ensign to wear.

Is there a special pennant for pedants?

 

[Irish Rover]

Has anybody ever been boarded by the flag police in this or any other state?

Not boarded as such but it's happened to me twice - once by the Turkish coast guard to tell me my Turkish flag was a bit tatty looking and should be replaced and once by Frontex to admonish me for not flying a Greek courtesy flag shortly after crossing the international dividing line from Turkey. I saw a British skipper get a bollocking from the port police in Samos because he forgot to take down his Turkish courtesy flag after crossing from Turkey. Flying the wrong flag or no flag is a sure way to attract official attention.

 

[Graham376]

Has anybody ever been boarded by the flag police in this or any other state?

We were in company with a boat who was pulled by French police for not flying any ensign. OP needs to bear in mind that if in transit through EU, marinas will want to see registration document, as will police if inspected at sea or on anchor. Unregistered boat will most likely be impounded and fine issued.

P.S. Just remembered a case some years ago. A guy berthed somewhere in Guadiana had posted his certificate back to UK to renew SSR. Routine inspection by police, they wouldn't accept his photocopy and impounded the boat until new certificate arrived.

 

[Tranona]

Has anybody ever been boarded by the flag police in this or any other state?

Maybe we are relaxed about it in this country, but that is not the case elsewhere where laws are much stricter and enforced. Regular occurence in Greece for example for 2 reasons. First registration and displaying the flag is compulsory and it is an area where there are a huge number of boats of all nationalities circulating. Every little port has a Port police office with powers to impound boats. Similar to a greater or lesser extent in all countries that have prescriptive legal systems that give wide powers to local officials.

So best to get it right if you sail in such places.

 

[dunedin]

Has anybody ever been boarded by the flag police in this or any other state?

Not boarded but challenged by police launch within 100m of departing marina in France, on first day using new boat. Had forgotten to put ensign staff in - apologised and promptly put correct ensign on.

 

[[70521]]

Thanks for all the examples above. I shall make note for adventures anew this summer.

It would be interesting to see what our French neighbours would make of boats, flying, wearing or waving the maritime ensign of Devon or Cornwall - all very popular round here.

Having just moved my boat to the Cornish side of the Tamar I shall need to invest in a Devon courtesy flag/pennant/bit of cloth.

 

[Lightwave395]

P.S. Just remembered a case some years ago. A guy berthed somewhere in Guadiana had posted his certificate back to UK to renew SSR. Routine inspection by police, they wouldn't accept his photocopy and impounded the boat until new certificate arrived.

Happened to me 3 years ago, boarded by French customs in Crouesty in the Morbihan, I had a copy of my SSR cert which wasn't enough, I got fined 150 euros - they sat onboard and drank my coffee while I went off to the nearest cashpoint. I think they were making an example of me as they had some trainees in tow...

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for all the examples above. I shall make note for adventures anew this summer.

It would be interesting to see what our French neighbours would make of boats, flying, wearing or waving the maritime ensign of Devon or Cornwall - all very popular round here.

Having just moved my boat to the Cornish side of the Tamar I shall need to invest in a Devon courtesy flag/pennant/bit of cloth.

They have no meaning as ensigns - they are just flags. You will find similar local flags flown in France, just not as ensigns.

 

[jamie N]

How would the red ensign with the Scottish Saltire be viewed?
Not a regional flag; a flag of a nation etc.etc...
Hopefully still below a 'Current Affairs' level of controversy, but actually, how would the French/other EU, approach a boat with a Catalan flag also for example?

 

[VicS]

How would the red ensign with the Scottish Saltire be viewed?
Not a regional flag; a flag of a nation etc.etc...
Hopefully still below a 'Current Affairs' level of controversy, but actually, how would the French/other EU, approach a boat with a Catalan flag also for example?

Until1707, when the English and Scots navies, were combined it was the Scottish Red Ensign. AFAIK not now recognised by international maritime law

 

[Kukri]

Hi there, probably not a typical question, but which flag to fly on a deregistered (deflagged) sailboat and where during a delivery. Any etiquette on that?
Or you fly none in that case?

I manage merchant ships. I have to know this stuff to earn a living. This isn’t etiquette; this is law.

You don’t say where the boat is starting from or going to on this delivery. There is no such thing as a stateless boat. A boat may not be registered by her owner but she still has nationality.

Wars have started over this.

I’m going to answer the simple case: a boat which is owned by a British subject and is not registered is British. In British waters she does not need to wear an ensign. If she does, she must wear the red ensign.

All the other cases are more complicated and I’m not going to write a book. If you want to know about a particular different case, ask away.

* The Second Anglo-Chinese War began with a dispute over the registry of the lorcha “Arrow”.

 

[Tranona]

How would the red ensign with the Scottish Saltire be viewed?
Not a regional flag; a flag of a nation etc.etc...
Hopefully still below a 'Current Affairs' level of controversy, but actually, how would the French/other EU, approach a boat with a Catalan flag also for example?

It is just a flag and has no legal meaning.

 

[john_morris_uk]

How would the red ensign with the Scottish Saltire be viewed?
Not a regional flag; a flag of a nation etc.etc...
Hopefully still below a 'Current Affairs' level of controversy, but actually, how would the French/other EU, approach a boat with a Catalan flag also for example?

Much as I love Scotland, you'll be opening yourself to winding up the local maritime police of some foreign countries big time. Choose your battles and have your boat wear the red ensign which is the correct ensign for all British registered vessels. Same applies to vessels wearing Cornish and Devonian ensigns. Good luck if you wear them abroad...

(Before anyone jumps down my throat about how other ‘legal’ ensigns are available, blue ensigns and white ensigns etc are 'privilege ensigns' and do not disallow any civilian vessel from wearing a red duster IIRC. Warships are different.)