flat bottomed wooden canoe license dilemma - moral guidance sought

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Buckingham
www.keepturningleft.co.uk
Dear Forumites,

I wonder if you could help me with a moral dilemma

The English Canoe Union has sent me an email telling me that my £37 annual membership is due up for renewal

it includes a license for all of Britain's canals and some of its rivers


I bought one last year just because of the license deal and it is much cheaper than buying direct from the canals and rivers Trust

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/1195.pdf

which I think would cost me £93 for 30 days as opposed to £37 for the whole year from the canoe union

I used my flat bottomed canoe for ten very happy days on the Thames and grand Union Canal

I diligently carried my little orange tag with me in my pocket but no-one ever asked to see it

the £37 is not a life changing amount of money but it is a tank of petrol to get me to and from Katie L which is currently berthed on the Humber

and we live in difficult times

I would love the Canoe Union to spend time pioneering rights of way along the thousands of miles of canoeable rivers from which canoeists are currently excluded

- and I would gladly give them the money if I thought that was where it was going to go

but it seems that only a tiny proportion of their budget goes to licensing and rights of way - about which I care a great deal -

while the lots of it goes towards subsidising the lives of the UK's highly successful elite canoeists - about whom I care not a fig plus

I also get a lb bundle of worthless bumph through the post every other month. That goes straight into the recycling bin

during my time on the rivers and canals in my flat bottom wooden canoe I met many other canoeists in their regular car parking spots

my flat bottomed canoe (that can also be sailed) attracted a lot of attention

not one of them I spoke to had a license - they told me that the system is unpoliced on the canals and rivers, that the canoe union are not interested in recreational canoeists other than as a source of revenue.

- no-one I met had ever been asked to show a license or canoe union tag

I should add that I have already given £105 to the Canal and Rivers trust for the license to take Katie L up the Trent and Ouse - so I am contributing much more towards the costs of maintaining the system than the majority of my fellow canoeists

who are paying nothing at all

so, should I buy a license

or

when in Rome etc....


Dylan



just in case you are interested on whether or not I should even be claiming that my canoe is a canoe here it is on the Thames


and here it is being paddled on a canal just to prove that it looks like a canoe and paddles like a canoe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Mpymv9kQE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajB1W0QRaTw
 
Don't pay.

Their administration cost to advertise, certify and produce the license will certainly exceed the amount you are paying.

You are doing them a favour and helping them reduce their deficit by refusing to pay.
 
I think you are looking at the lowest fee for a powered craft.
The 30 day explorer license for an 'unpowered craft' is £30.27 from the C&RT , for canals and rivers. Go to the bottom of the C&RT price table.
 
thank you

MartynG said:
I think you are looking at the lowest fee for a powered craft.
The 30 day explorer license for an 'unpowered craft' is £30.27 from the C&RT , for canals and rivers. Go to the bottom of the C&RT price table.
Click to expand...

not spotted that

that is cheaper

and would cover my days on the water on the canals and some rivers

to do do my local river, the Thames, then legally I should get a license from them as well

however....

the moral decison is the same

I am still in the position of being one of the very canoeists who pay

Dylan
 
What are the penalties that the relevant authorities could level at you in the unlikely event they catch you? The 3rd party insurance thing would be a persuasive point.
 
I offer a mail order confessional service.

Send me £36 and, whenever you feel pangs of guilt, let me know and I will send you the appropriate absolution by return. You will therefore be at one with your fellow canoeists who you will be able to look in the eye with the benefit of a clear conscience.
 
Without commenting on your moral dilemma, I think the reality is in the unlikely event you were to be challenged for not having a licence, most likely the worst that would happen (assuming you stayed polite) is you might be asked to pay for a licence there and then.

I also wonder whether you might want to send your comments to the Canoe Union, rather than just air them on here.
 
talk to the hand

LittleSister said:
Without commenting on your moral dilemma, I think the reality is in the unlikely event you were to be challenged for not having a licence, most likely the worst that would happen (assuming you stayed polite) is you might be asked to pay for a licence there and then.

I also wonder whether you might want to send your comments to the Canoe Union, rather than just air them on here.
Click to expand...

it is more interesting sharing it on here

and Canoe Union are never going to react to one old bloke who thinks that they should spend more time on fighting for navigation rights and less money on elite coaching staff

this is from their website


Canoe Slalom, Head Coach

Dependent on experience
various locations in India

The Indian Kayaking and Canoeing Association desires to hire Foreign Coaches in Canoe Sprint and Canoe Slalom events to train the paddlers with a Mission to win Medals at the Asian Games 2014

Recruiter: Indian Kayaking and Canoeing Federation

Apply for this job
Indian Kayaking and Canoeing Federation
Canoe Sprint, Head Coach

Various locations in India
Dependent on experience

The Indian Kayaking and Canoeing Association desires to hire Foreign Coaches in Canoe Sprint and Canoe Slalom events to train the paddlers with a Mission to win Medals at the Asian Games 2014

Recruiter: Indian Kayaking and Canoeing Federation

Apply for this job
British Canoe Union
Sprint Racing Planning & Logistics Officer

Nottingham, UK
Competitive

We are now seeking a Planning and Logistics Officer to support our Sprint Racing Team, this role will be responsible for all aspects of the fleet and budget management associated with our Olympic, Paralympic, Junior & Development Programmes.
 
I stumped up the annual membership for the last 5 or 6 years. I got asked once wether I had a "license" on the thames by a lockie, said " I did" and he just said ok. Never asked to see it or my membership.
Even when camping on the lock islands not one of them asked to see a license.

I didn't bother paying up this year, none of them are interested in kayakers or canoeists.......
 
that was what I understood

BarryH said:
I stumped up the annual membership for the last 5 or 6 years. I got asked once wether I had a "license" on the thames by a lockie, said " I did" and he just said ok. Never asked to see it or my membership.
Even when camping on the lock islands not one of them asked to see a license.

I didn't bother paying up this year, none of them are interested in kayakers or canoeists.......
Click to expand...

that was what I understood from my contacts the canoeists are below their radar

too small to license

so they leave it to the canoe union who take the water tax from recreational canoe voyagers and give most of it to the the lycra people and a tiny bit to the canal and river trust

Dylan
 
I agree with all cynical views exprest in this thread


and would add


then this and similar organizations are perceived as "speaking for" the entire canoeing community.


likewise other communities. The organization ends up as effectively an arm of government.


adopting your layout style Dylan as imitation is the sincerest form of admiration.
 
I agree.... although

BobPrell said:
I agree with all cynical views exprest in this thread


and would add


then this and similar organizations are perceived as "speaking for" the entire canoeing community.


likewise other communities. The organization ends up as effectively an arm of government.


adopting your layout style Dylan as imitation is the sincerest form of admiration.
Click to expand...


I thoroughly agree with the senitiments expressed in your reply

however

I think you need to pay more attention to sensible line breaks

and

you used a full stop and unnecesary capital
 
Re: I agree.... although

D

I am sure this dilemma has long been resolved for you but this thread came to mind when I started researching.

We are going on a canal holiday in the UK my daughter wants to take or inflatable canoe.

£62 for a years family membership for 1 weeks holiday... Hmmm. The thing is my daughter at 8 is going to want to go on her own I suspect (Whilst in sight, safety, safety etc etc).

Could I just pay for her membership at £25.00 a year? That is more in line with my budget.

I just well not be able to use canoe without her!
 
Re: I agree.... although

I think if some jobsworth official asked to see some kind of licence for my 8 year old to paddle her inflatable canoe near to our legitimate mother ship I'd tell him exactly where he can go look for it..... Besides, at 8 she's under the age of criminal responsibility.
 
Re: I agree.... although

having consulted widely on the web and at first hand

don't bother paying - canoeists hardly ever get asked to show documents and if they do plead ignorance and stump up for a day ticket

the canoe union are very big on saying what great things they do - what they do is to dump loads of advertising gumph through your letter box (they make the RYA look like amatuers in this department) and any money left over after overheads, head office, cars etc they give to Olympians - disabled or otherwise.

they even give money to people who paddle like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UzczHfieio

as a recreational paddler you are nothing more than a milch cow
 
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