Flares - what is the latest theory?

kimhollamby

kimhollamby

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www.kimhollamby.com
It's flare replacement time on Formanda (pyros, not trousers for avoidance of doubt) and I've noticed some refs to people switching to these laser devices.

Having had two in-date flares fail on me (fortunately dud) and heard some horrid stories of more explosive failures I've always slightly wondered about the wisdom of carrying three hundred quid or so of explosive for safety purposes.

Given we've avoided gas for the galley and petrol for the outboard I'm just left with a bosun's locker full of paint, varnish and thinners and an aft seat with whizbangs inside. The coatings are a necessary evil for now but how about the flares?

Replace like-for-like or go hi tech? Thoughts?
 
I dont know that much about them but I do know that in rough waters I cant see much more than 1/2 mile from my boat.
if I was even closer to the water such as life raft or actually in the sea the line of sight is even less, I cant see how a distress laser signal will carry more than a cable or so in these conditions.

seeing as the chances of me needing to send a distress from an elevated position or catching a stray aircraft is slim I will not be investing in laser flares.

catch a glimpse of a ship and let the rocket soar into the sky keeping your fingers crossed.

Now the choice to exchange pyrotechnics for PLB and DSC is worth considering but you may feel left out on Bonflare night 2015 ;)
 
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There is nothing in the use of the lasers to tell the public that they are distress signals. Shining lasers at aircraft is also an offence.

An old fashioned pyro rocket is recognised by all as a distress signal and the advantage is that once fired it is forgotten and is visible all around the horizon and takes a number of seconds to descend whilst burning. On the YouTube video the receivers were given directions to the guy shining the laser else they would not have been seen.

On that basis I shall stay with the old fashioned flares.
 
kimhollamby said:
It's flare replacement time on Formanda (pyros, not trousers for avoidance of doubt) and I've noticed some refs to people switching to these laser devices.

Having had two in-date flares fail on me (fortunately dud) and heard some horrid stories of more explosive failures I've always slightly wondered about the wisdom of carrying three hundred quid or so of explosive for safety purposes.

Given we've avoided gas for the galley and petrol for the outboard I'm just left with a bosun's locker full of paint, varnish and thinners and an aft seat with whizbangs inside. The coatings are a necessary evil for now but how about the flares?

Replace like-for-like or go hi tech? Thoughts?
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Yea..I wonder whether its such a smart idea to have a pile of explosives on board, too. I ve only used one at a RNLI demo, and after that experience I am going to need to be close to death's door before I care to use one again.
Mind you, even in June, just going along the coast we hardly ever saw another boat, so I have my doubts a flare would prove much use anyway. Its not as though I am making a 360 degreee sweep of the horizon myself, either. In fact, unless you are pretty much in front of me, I doubt I m going to see it.
The orange smoke bomb lobbed over the side might be use for a life boat, I guess, but is that what we are discussing?
 
Not a recognised distress signal

Laser flares are not officially recognised distress signals.

I would suggest checking with your insurers before replacing pyros with laser flares alone. They may just say that you would be contravening the bit in the contract that says about keeping the boat in a safe a nd seaworthy condition or words to that effect.
Shorn
 
There was discussion on here very recently

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249624

Also a discussion earlier about the Odeo flare

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241818

I quite fancy the idea of the Odeo Flare
Omnidirectional, and runs for 10 hours.

I'd like to see that one in particular tested.

However, there does not seem to be much point in just replacing the hand held reds with a laser but still keeping other pyros so who is going to invent a battery powered "smoke" and a battery powered rocket?

( must get some new flares mine are so old the instructions are in Latin)
 
Insurance

Yes I hadn't got as far as to check insurance expectation...I'll almost certainly wind up playing 'safe' and buying a replacement tub of flares but was interested to see if the laser idea had any traction yet.

Seems it is still very much in the musing phase.

Agree that the concept of attracting someone's attention by hitting them in the eyes with a laser seems a bit contrary to what is sensible but then holding a molten bit of metal (albeit with a plastic handle between) in a rocky liferaft with numb fingers is hardly the stuff of logic either.

I must confess to be being a bit sceptical about a lot of safety kit. I'll carry it all but my expectations are definitely in the 'expect it to go wrong' zone.
 
I share your concerns Kim. I have no gas, no petrol stored (only what's in the tender's onboard tank, etc). So I hate the big tub of pyrotechnics

They're totally pointless, afaics. Well, that's how it seems to me - if anyone knows of something a flare will do that other kit wont I'm happy to hear. If you need to summon help you do it on VHF, DSC, mobile phone, blackberry email, satfone, loudhailer and/or GPS-enabled EPIRB. I can't imagine ever wanting to set my own hand on fire (remember the recall 4 yrs ago?) when in a tricky situation if I have all these other means of telling folks where I am and that I need help, and I worry they could go off accidentally

But I still carry them because MCA tells me to, the dinosaurs. I'd happily buy laser jobs, even for €2 jobs from a market stall, if it ticked a box and made MCA happy. But afaik they insist on the real exploding thing currently

Interested to hear if there is a battery powered solution though so i'll watch the thread with interest

What's your solution to carrying no petrol? Do you have a diesel outboard?
 
gjgm said:
(snip)
Its not as though I am making a 360 degreee sweep of the horizon myself, either. In fact, unless you are pretty much in front of me, I doubt I m going to see it.
(snip)
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Ohh Poo! You should be keeping a good lookout at all times - and that means 360 deg. You're not a MoBo'er by any chance are you?

Somehow I get the impression that most Stinkies that pass me by never look behind them - or even to either side. They seldom see me give a cheery wave & never notice when they have swamped small boats behind them.
 
I've got flairs on the boat. I think I bought them ten years ago. I've got another lot in the garage which were gave to me, Is there some way of getting rid of them. It seems to fright netting to let them off.
 
There are numerous problems, the main ones being that a flare fired into the air reaches a great height before exploding and descending, so therefore it can be seen for miles; a LED type cannot. These are recognised by anyone as distress signals, whereas al LED type could simply be an idiot of which there are a substantial and growing number creating problems for everyone.

LED types rely on batteries, this assumes you have have good batteries installed, or the rechargeable types are charged. It is amazing how many are not kept charged or fitted with good batteries.

Insurance is an issue, i have contacted my insurers and they have confirmed that i must carry flares as LED types are not legally recognised, they conceded that i could carry both types, but pyro must be aboard.
 
Searush said:
Ohh Poo! You should be keeping a good lookout at all times - and that means 360 deg. You're not a MoBo'er by any chance are you?
Click to expand...

I see you display a complete lack of knowledge about a fast boat. We are discussing use of flares, so lets assume we are in open water. Chances are, nearest boat is at least a mile away- and I did just say I saw virtually no boats in several weeks. So, to be approaching me from my stern, you will need to be travelling at 50 knots + to catch me in, say, five minutes. 70 knots+ if I am really motoring. That suggests to me, most vessels behind me, I will have passed during the passage. Not altogether amazing to discover that most of the time I am concentrating on in front and to the side of me. I am coming up on 5 knot sailing boats very fast. Most vessels are out of sight behind me pretty quickly. I suggest the VHF ch 16 is a good use of effort, and AIS helps too.
Since I travel quite quickly I probably make far more sweeps of the horizon than most sailing boats do at 5 knots. I need to know what is around me.
In crowded waters, of course I look behind me more. The sailing boat in front is probably about to tack right across in front of me without even looking.
 
you can see the pyrotechnic flares day and night, from the shore, i doubt that anyone would see the laser ones from the shore unless it was pointed at them, and then they might not realise what it is. The pyrotechnic flares are undoubtedly seen and recognised by landlubbers near the shore as a matter of distress or emergency and therefore call the coastguard.
 
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