Flares Safety.

[Alistairr]

I just bought this pack of Flares last friday, Something i've never had on the boat and thought i'd ought too.

My question to the panel is;
Exactly how safe are flares, should they be handled with kid gloves? Does a lot of banging around cause a danger of them being set off?
The container fits perfectly into the cup holders on the side of my boat, but they will in no way be cushioned, Is that okay?
Any tips on storage or handling much appreciated.

Funny there's no mention of how to use flares in my PB2 and ICC coarse!!

Cheers

Alistair.

 

[Roy]

My question to the panel is;
Exactly how safe are flares, should they be handled with kid gloves? > Safe until lit. Keep away from direct heat source when storing.

Does a lot of banging around cause a danger of them being set off? > No, they can only be set off by the twist and smack system or by the rip tops, which I think yours are...? > Keep em in their tub and secured /wedged somewhere accessible.

The container fits perfectly into the cup holders on the side of my boat, but they will in no way be cushioned, Is that okay? > Thats ok.

Any tips on storage or handling much appreciated.

Hope this helps Al. Best wishes to Kirsty and hope she pushes through this illness and gets back to fitness very soon. Roy

 

[Bandit]

Flares are very dangerous and kid gloves will not offer much protection.

They must be kept dry and away from damage and children.

I pack mine in an original plastic flare container and I wrap them up in a towel with polystyrene packing bits to stop them being shaken around too much.

I did yacht master a while ago and we used parachutes, pin point and smokes, it was an eyeopener and as a child i always had a healthy enthusiasm for pyrotechnics.

I know that the authorities are not keen on people letting off flares and smokes even under controled conditions incase they are interpreted as a real emergency. The end result is that most people have never handled them , they are dangerous, they are difficult to use effectively, and you only have a few to get it right.

The odds are the first time most people would use them is under severe conditions of stress, bad weather, after the boat has sunk and you are in a dinghy in the dark. Possibly not a good time to read the instructions.

Why cant each area have a properly managed and controled day when old flares can be set off from an approved site at an approved time under expert tuition to familiarise boat owners ?

Be careful of old damp or damaged flares. I have seen pinpoints that have swolen and ignite where you are holding them.

 

[BrendanS]

There are. I've been to 3 flare lectures and demos, and set off parachute rockets and hand held flares of different makes. You only have to ask.

 

[Tekkie]

[ QUOTE ]

Funny there's no mention of how to use flares in my PB2 and ICC coarse!!

Cheers

Alistair.

[/ QUOTE ]
When did you do your PB Level 2?

Too my certain Knowledge the use of Flares should be covered from at least '96 how else could your instructor sign up Section A part 8 ?
(old book) /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Brian

 

[Alistairr]

We did our PB2 in August 2003.
So fairly recently.

 

[Alistairr]

This is suddenly becoming an interesting thread.

I never knew RNLI did demo days.

I agree with Bandit,[ QUOTE ]
The odds are the first time most people would use them is under severe conditions of stress, bad weather, after the boat has sunk and you are in a dinghy in the dark. Possibly not a good time to read the instructions.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the heat of the moment, never having used a flare before will you be able to deploy it correctly???

Brendan, if what you say is right then i think the Demo day is a must, And also with hands-on, i would personally treat it like an informal training day.

Cheers all.

Alistair.

 

[Boating_Buoys]

Even better is to do the RYA Sea Survival course ... it is simply fantastic and covers lifejacket use, liferafts, tips on keeing warm and general survival as well as a practical demonstration (hands on) of flares etc.

It's the best (circa) £80 you will ever invest in.

It's also great fun; trying lifejackets and liferafts in a controlled environment.

I cant' recommend it high enough; learn loads but it;s a fun day too.

Andy

 

[BrendanS]

on a previous thread on subject here I suggested setting up a demo, but no one was interested

 

[Alistairr]

Sorry, I can't remember that thread, but then i probably wouldn't have replied, since i'm so far away.

It does sound a good idea though.

 

[MedDreamer]

I did my PB2 on Windermere so non-coastal and did not cover use of flares.

However it was covered in some detail on the Day Skipper Theory course.

I'm definitely going to contact Flamboro/Scarboro lifeboat to attend a demo - take the missus along as well I think

Martyn

 

[Solitaire]

[ QUOTE ]

Funny there's no mention of how to use flares in my PB2 and ICC coarse!!



[/ QUOTE ]

You should have covered the basics of flares and their use on your level 2 course!!

Another thing to check is that the flares are stored in the container with the handle end uppermost, so that in the event you have to use them, you pull them out by the handle - right end! You can also put some foam at the base of the container to prevent them banging about on their heads. The flare pack you bought gives a fairly tight fit around the flares themselves so they won't bash around too much at all. I also suggest you familiarise yourself with the firing instructions, you don't want to be reading them in the event you have to us them in a hurry!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[gjgm]

took part in an RNLI open day couple of summers ago, and since then I have a glove kept inside the container. Now maybe if your life is in danger, you re not too worried about your hand, but I would certainly prefer to have my hand gloved, sinking or not. Ellen may have been waving those white flares around her boat a month or so back, but crickey, they throw off some heat. Its sort of alarming to see that immersing them in a bucket of water doest extinguish them (for good reason of course), but it makes you realise how potentially dangerous they are. Like- fire a rocket down wind, becasue if it drifts down onto you plastic boat, its going to start burning a hole right through it., and water isnt going to help.Other surprises were the amount of dross that comes off them and the variation in sorts of different trigger types.
It was an eye opener to me, and can see why best practice is to be sure you are totally familiar with your flares, to the extent of firing if safely in the dark in a stressful situation-without holding the wrong end for example.
Think fireworks night and then think that these things are industrial...

 

[Alistairr]

[ QUOTE ]
You can also put some foam at the base of the container to prevent them banging about on their heads.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good idea David, i will do that. Interesting also you say to check that the flares are stored in the container with the handle end uppermost, currently they are all the other way round, as thats the way they came.

Cheers

Alistair.

 

[Alistairr]

Agree with everything you've said.
I think a RNLI open day will certainly have to on the cards.

When i bought them and opened the tub for the first time, It was immediately apparent to me how delicate and fragile they looked, frightened to touch them really. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[BrendanS]

That's one of the advantages of the demo. You get a lecture before hand, and they have loads of 'dummies' from lots of different manufacturers - so you can play with the different firing mechanisms and shapes and sizes. They aren't that fragile to handle at all - you just don't want them banging a lot when stored on the boat.

Firing them for real gives you real confidence that you'll be able to do it effectively if needed. You learn a lot about eg firing parachutes downwind (opposite to what many people think you should do) and that the handhelds need a real good thump to set them off (many of the women couldn't do it - though I suspect in an emergency adrenaline would take over).

Also as a result of the first demo I went to, I put a heavy leather gardening glove in the container as mentioned previously - those things throw off red hot droppings - hold them over the side of boat downwind with glove on - or the molten bits are likely to damage your gelcoat, or even start a fire in the fibreglass!

The handheld flares, if dropped into metal bucket of water while still burning, will continue to burn, and have been known to burn through the bottom of the metal bucket, which gives you some idea of the intensity of burn

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
Why cant each area have a properly managed and controled day when old flares can be set off from an approved site at an approved time under expert tuition to familiarise boat owners ?


[/ QUOTE ]Tried to get a flare night going - even offered to supply the flares / rockets / pinpoints / smokes but while it seemed a goer once I mentioned the pyros were out of date the situation changed to "we will supply but there will be a charge for the flares" something to do with health and safety. If you let off a out of date flare and something goes wrong the organisers would be liable so officially you cannot use the OoD pyros on your boat for practice. Roll on next Nov 5th.....
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[fireball]

Interestingly even some DS instructors still tell you to fire parachute flares upwind ... even after the RNLI video stated to fire all flares downwind!! Ah well...

It was my understanding that the parachute flares will track into the wind ... is this a view generally held?

I watched some really out of date flares being let off ... and the majority were masked by the fireworks going off at the same time!! One or two did as expected ... none were parachute though...

 

[Solitaire]

[ QUOTE ]

It was my understanding that the parachute flares will track into the wind ... is this a view generally held?



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, fire the rocket downwind and it will curve and seek the wind. Careful of the angle. If the cloud base is low adjust accordingly. You don't want the flare to be obscured by the cloud. NEVER fire them while helicopters are the vicinity!

 

[cliff]

Hand held "reds" tend to be a little "off colour" if past their use by date but for demo purposes the colour is not that important, or is it?
Parachute flares tend not to reach full height if OoD so wind up still burning when they hit the ground having said that I have seen some 15 year OoD paras being let off and they worked fine - I think a lot depends on how they are stored.

I still think a local "amnesty" would be in order, say for one hour in designated areas, to allow people to dispose of OoD pyros AND gain the experience of using them before they have to do it in an emergency situation. Would need to be at their own risk though.
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