Flares or Lasers

[Talbot]

Last time I looked at this seriously, Lasers were a poor substitute and were not accepted under UK Boating laws. I was sure that the equipment would improve, and much quicker than legislation would catch up. I am not sure where this stands now, but it is certain that this change will eventually arrive. Personally I am more than happy to get rid of flares, but think that white parachute flares still have purpose for trying to find and recover a MOB at night, and that smoke still has a purpose in identifying a boat quickly amongst a lot of other vessels.

It should be noted that the Australian Authorities have already decided that from 1 September 2026 parachute flares will no longer be accepted as part of the required safety equipment for recreational vessels, and they must also carry a GPS-enabled EPIRB, registered with Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA).

 

[lustyd]

PLB, EPIRB and safety lines for us, although we're not coded. The only reason I would have flares on board in 2026 is coding or because they're inside a lliferaft and can't be removed.
Modern torches massively outshine flares and have a considerably longer burn time for search purposes.

 

[ylop]

Modern torches massively outshine flares

Depending on the use case perhaps? If you mean for shining a focussed beam in a specific direction then yes - in terms of ability to be seen from a far in 360 deg and potentially above? Perhaps not? In terms of visibility on Thermal imaging - probably not?

I’m not particularly a fan of flares but it’s probably best not to exaggerate the utility of a torch. I’ve never used not carried a white para flare (and I don’t think many people do) but if you were trying to find a casualty in the dark it might be better than trying to swing a torch around hoping for something. (Probably better investment to ensure all LJs have lights - although that only helps your own crew).

 

[ylop]

Last time I looked at this seriously, Lasers were a poor substitute and were not accepted under UK Boating laws.

Which laws were you concerned with complying with? Eg if you are coded you will get different answers from ordinary leisure sailor. RYA/RNLI/MCA all seem much more open to electronic distress methods that they used to be.

It should be noted that the Australian Authorities have already decided that from 1 September 2026 parachute flares will no longer be accepted as part of the required safety equipment for recreational vessels, and they must also carry a GPS-enabled EPIRB, registered with Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA).

You’ve worded that in a way which I think might be misleading? That reads to me that Aussie boats will no longer be allowed to carry flares?

 

[Tranona]

The only "law" in the UK is that boats over 13m approx and boats that are coded must carry prescribed flares. For pure private leisure use you can choose or not to carry flares based on your own view of their usefulness to you.

 

[Bouba]

I think there’s a difference between identifying where you are to people who are looking for you....and sending a distress message. I think people understand that a Rocket or flare is a distress call...in a way they may not with a laser or torch

 

[ylop]

I think people understand that a Rocket or flare is a distress call...in a way they may not with a laser or torch

I used to think that - but I increasingly think that the public are too stupid to trust to (a) realise it’s a distress signal (b) call the CG rather than video it for instagram (c) provide an accurate description to the CG of what they saw and where.

 

[Tranona]

Little or no evidence that flares observed by others are a common form of distress notification - which may be liked to people not carrying flares as they don't consider them useful compared with other means of attracting attention. Cause and effect?

 

[capnsensible]

I simply go by what rescue services ask you to carry in order to find you.

 

[westhinder]

We carry a LED-flare because I think it is a sensible addition to EPIRB-PLB-VHF, especially as its burn time is incomparably longer than a flare.
We also carry pyrotechnic flares because Belgian law says we have to, not because I have any confidence they will have the desired effect. If it was up to me I would only carry a couple of orange smoke pots.
I do not expect Belgian law to change anytime soon as our lawmakers are not remotely interested in maritime affairs. International bodies like IMO or EU will not be driving any change either, I suspect.

 

[Bouba]

I simply go by what rescue services ask you to carry in order to find you.

I go by the rule of firsts....first I want them to know to start searching

 

[lustyd]

Depending on the use case perhaps? If you mean for shining a focussed beam in a specific direction then yes - in terms of ability to be seen from a far in 360 deg and potentially above? Perhaps not? In terms of visibility on Thermal imaging - probably not?

I was specifically referring to searching, and modern torches are much better than flares for this. Even just from a time perspective 30-40 seconds isn't a lot of search time compared to 2+ hours.
Not all modern torches are stuck with a focused beam, I have cycle lights that can light up a forest like it's daytime, and those aren't even that good compared to some others.

 

[lustyd]

I simply go by what rescue services ask you to carry in order to find you.

I don't think the RNLI make recommendations, they just list what's available and what it's useful for. Might be different where you are, but aside from coding I don't think we have a lot of strong guidance here.

From a SAR perspective, having a precise time and GPS stamp from an EPIRB, PLB, DSC, or even a MOB button on the plotter, would be better for their tidal simulations than a flare that nobody saw.

 

[lustyd]

It has just occurred to me that regardless of what you may think of flares and lasers, step one should be to bin the faded orange floating light sitting in your horseshoe buoy holder and replace it with an LED strobe. Those old design orange lights were always hopeless, always full of water, always flat batteries and the filament bulb was visible for very nearly a metre in good conditions.

Until that's replaced, I think everything else is a nice to have! Also check your lifejacket lights actually work and are fitted to all LJs.

 

[ylop]

I was specifically referring to searching, and modern torches are much better than flares for this. Even just from a time perspective 30-40 seconds isn't a lot of search time compared to 2+ hours.
Not all modern torches are stuck with a focused beam, I have cycle lights that can light up a forest like it's daytime, and those aren't even that good compared to some others.

But they are still directional - you’ll be illuminating a cone of light - perhaps 30-45deg? No use if you aren’t pointing it the right way. The logic of white parachutes is they are more like street lights.

However I think it’s a non-argument as I’ve never knowingly been on a boat that carried white parachutes. Even commercial vessels. I’m certainly not planning to get any.

 

[dunedin]

It has just occurred to me that regardless of what you may think of flares and lasers, step one should be to bin the faded orange floating light sitting in your horseshoe buoy holder and replace it with an LED strobe. Those old design orange lights were always hopeless, always full of water, always flat batteries and the filament bulb was visible for very nearly a metre in good conditions.

Until that's replaced, I think everything else is a nice to have! Also check your lifejacket lights actually work and are fitted to all LJs.

As with most things, there is no single answer and priorities depend on circumstances / requirements. An MOB danbuoy light isn’t high on the priorities list for a singlehander. And probably comes after a lifejackets light and MOB beacon for a crewed boat where lifejackets are used as a matter of routine.

Flares wise I am disposing of all pyrotechniques as they pass (substantially) beyond expiry date.
In terms of notifying distress as I understand it the main methods actually received by Coastguard are now mobile phone, VHF / DSC and PLB (or EPIRB further offshore). Having all of these a laser flare seems sufficient, if not slight overkill.

 

[lustyd]

But they are still directional - you’ll be illuminating a cone of light - perhaps 30-45deg? No use if you aren’t pointing it the right way. The logic of white parachutes is they are more like street lights.

However I think it’s a non-argument as I’ve never knowingly been on a boat that carried white parachutes. Even commercial vessels. I’m certainly not planning to get any.

No, they aren't that tight. As I said, my bike light is like the sun and it's quite a poor light by modern standards. My dive torch is also very good. The bike light probably manages 120 degree pattern, it's certainly a wider beam than my vision is.

I'd take two hours of narrow beam over 30 seconds of street lamp and a prayer any day!

 

[capnsensible]

I go by the rule of firsts....first I want them to know to start searching

Point missed.....send up a red text now you've accepted you need help....

 

[lustyd]

An MOB danbuoy light isn’t high on the priorities list for a singlehander.

The discussion I responded to was about finding an MOB in the water. Almost none of this is relevant to single handed MOBs where a PLB is the only really good answer, and still would be if you don't fall in.

 

[Stemar]

I go by the rule of firsts....first I want them to know to start searching

A fair point. For us, pottering around the Solent, and occasionally a bit further along the coast, but never far offshore, I reckon a DSC radio, a handheld and a couple of phones have that covered, and we're fairly distinctive, so easy to find - unless we've abandoned to the flubber, so we carry an LED "flare", on the basis that it lasts for years, and will work continuously for a couple of hours, compared with a couple of minutes for a flare.

There's also the consideration that if we do ever need it, I'm liable to be a bit busy, and the prospect of a panicked Madame with a sodding great flame in her hand scares me almost as much as whatever is causing us to need it.

Offshore, my risk assessment might be different