Flappy partially furled genoa, whilst narrowly missing humpback whale sighting

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corbu

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Guys

Lovely sail in our 28 foot Cobra 850 from Largs on Sunday. Just one issue that had me a little stumped, namely how to stop the partially furled genoa stop flapping in the top third or so of the leech?

Wind was circa 20 knots and jib half rolled in, genoa car as far forward as it goes, leech line pulled tight, reasonable amount of tension on sheet, but, annoying flapping continuing.

Any thing else I could have done to prevent this? Sail was a 120% Genoa of a fair vintage if reasonable condition, furled approximately 50%. I did notice a few other bigger yachts with the same issue, just a function of furling this much?

Annoying, I missed the humpback whale sighting of Cumbrae slip by half an hour or so!
 
It sounds like the sail has just gone too baggy. A padded luff might help if you haven't got one already, otherwise, a trip to the sailmaker.
 
Thanks Guys, I had wondered about a barber hauler, but, no aluminium toe rail so would take a little effort to install. Any advice on the best way to set it up?

Re: baggy sail, yes could be that also. I'll look into cost of installing a padded luff.
 
corbu said:
Thanks Guys, I had wondered about a barber hauler, but, no aluminium toe rail so would take a little effort to install. Any advice on the best way to set it up?

Re: baggy sail, yes could be that also. I'll look into cost of installing a padded luff.
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You could experiment first by using a spinnaker halyard to haul a line, something like 14mm, up the luff, attached at the foot, and then part-furl the jib to see if it makes an improvement. It might be better to use a finer line at each end, to "taper" it.
 
corbu said:
Guys

Lovely sail in our 28 foot Cobra 850 from Largs on Sunday. Just one issue that had me a little stumped, namely how to stop the partially furled genoa stop flapping in the top third or so of the leech?

Wind was circa 20 knots and jib half rolled in, genoa car as far forward as it goes, leech line pulled tight, reasonable amount of tension on sheet, but, annoying flapping continuing.

Any thing else I could have done to prevent this? Sail was a 120% Genoa of a fair vintage if reasonable condition, furled approximately 50%. I did notice a few other bigger yachts with the same issue, just a function of furling this much?

Annoying, I missed the humpback whale sighting of Cumbrae slip by half an hour or so!
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It sounds as though the sail was not originally made as a roller reefing sail, or was made for a totally different boat. The geometry of a roller reefing sail has to be roughly right, usually meaning a higher clew than you get with a non-reefing sail. A lower-clewed genoa may FURL fine, but will exhibit exactly the characteristics you describe when you REEF it.

As others have said, you somehow need to get the sheet lead angle down when reefed, or you will steadily be destroying the sail's shape with the flapping upper leech. The leech line is not intended to take out major "flappy bits", just minor tremors of the sail leech, often called "motorboating" from the brrrrr sound it can make. At least 50% of cruising sailors seem to have leech lines grossly overtightened. You don't see it in racing boats except way at the back of the fleet.....
 
I suspect he's furling more of the sail away than it was designed for. Normally in my experience roller furling genoas are designed to be reefed up to a third of the length of the foot, if he's rolling up to half of the length of the foot away then problems with the geometry could start to appear.
 
Those are both good points, I think that it is a sail that was altered when the roller furler was installed. Also, usually fine when furled a bit but had furled to 50% that day.
 
I watched a group Dutchyachts preparing to leave Ostend to head upwind on a windy day. One was changing sails & I asked what he was doing. He pointed out that a smaller sail with no reef sets much better & it is pretty obvious really. If I know it is going to be windy I do not use my genoa but use my self tacker which is 95%. rather than the 140%. Not only does it help me point higher but is much better than a reefed genoa & I can carry it unfurled up to F8 gusts easily. Not so good downwind but if windy it is not always a problem
I really wonder why people do not consider the options more often before heading out. Is it because they A) Only have 1 sail. If so & they do lots of heavy weather sailing then sailing with a partly furled sail is going to ruin it pretty quick or B) it is too much hassle to change it. If it is then the system surely needs looking at
 
Daydream believer said:
I watched a group Dutchyachts preparing to leave Ostend to head upwind on a windy day. One was changing sails & I asked what he was doing. He pointed out that a smaller sail with no reef sets much better & it is pretty obvious really. If I know it is going to be windy I do not use my genoa but use my self tacker which is 95%. rather than the 140%. Not only does it help me point higher but is much better than a reefed genoa & I can carry it unfurled up to F8 gusts easily. Not so good downwind but if windy it is not always a problem
I really wonder why people do not consider the options more often before heading out. Is it because they A) Only have 1 sail. If so & they do lots of heavy weather sailing then sailing with a partly furled sail is going to ruin it pretty quick or B) it is too much hassle to change it. If it is then the system surely needs looking at
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Many cruising yachtspeople only have the single foresail, so changing sails isn't an option..... Our first foresail didn't have any foam in the luff and didn't furl well but it was good enough for us for a couple of seasons. The new genoa has a foam luff and furls in a much more satisfactory manner, albeit we can't point as high as with the full sail. We can't justify the cost or the stowage space to carry a second (or subsequent) sail, so make do with the inevitable compromise of a furled sail.
 
Daydream believer said:
I watched a group Dutchyachts preparing to leave Ostend to head upwind on a windy day. One was changing sails & I asked what he was doing. He pointed out that a smaller sail with no reef sets much better & it is pretty obvious really. If I know it is going to be windy I do not use my genoa but use my self tacker which is 95%. rather than the 140%. Not only does it help me point higher but is much better than a reefed genoa & I can carry it unfurled up to F8 gusts easily. Not so good downwind but if windy it is not always a problem
I really wonder why people do not consider the options more often before heading out. Is it because they A) Only have 1 sail. If so & they do lots of heavy weather sailing then sailing with a partly furled sail is going to ruin it pretty quick or B) it is too much hassle to change it. If it is then the system surely needs looking at
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Generally I find the people who have multiple options for headsails with roller furling are those who have previously owned boats with hank on headsails.

There isn't a situation possible where a part furled sail is better than a full suitably sized sail. Their only advantage is convenience.
 
Woodlouse said:
There isn't a situation possible where a part furled sail is better than a full suitably sized sail. Their only advantage is convenience.
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Actually, there is. It is when the wind drops and the next action is going to be to unfurl the sail fully. We used to cruise a Sadler 29 in company with a Sadler 32, both fin. Although the 32 was nominally faster, he didn't have a furling jib and so was frequently carrying too little sail or wasting time changing sails, and our cruising speeds were pretty much the same.

Modern fractional rigs have slightly changed the situation too, since many of us carry 110-120% jib instead of a genoa, meaning that we can put off putting rolls in the jib, and the shape is not bad with a few rolls in. My 34 can carry a full jib and no reef with 24kn apparent wind beating in smooth water, so for coastal sailing, reefing the jib is seldom needed.
 
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