Flage etiquette - courtesey flags

[CharlesM]

Hello All

I am off to the Caribbean soon, and have turned my mind to courtesy flags. Although I am sure that once I am there I will easily get info on what is the done thing, I am wondering if anyone could tell me what the approach should be.

For example. St Martin is 2 countries - Netherlands Antilles, and Guadeloup provinc (French DOM)

I appreciate the flags one flies would be those of the region you are checked in to. Lets Assume I check into the Dutch side. I notice a Neth. Antillies courtesy flag and a St. Maarten flag. How do I fly these? The Neth. Ant. above St. Maarten - both on Starboard spreader?

Further - I like to fly flags of the nationalities on board. Although not really correct, could one fly these from the port spreader?

Thanks
Charles

 

[Sea Devil]

I fly the national flag of the country I am in on the starboard spreader hoist with the Q flag beneath - until I have cleared - actually quite important in some islands. I fly the national flags of who ever is on bosrd on the port spreader hoist. Think thats what most folks do..

 

[iangrant]

Charles

Just a quick word..

"Hello All

I am off to the Caribbean soon,"

Does tend to piss people off around here.

Just thought I'd mention it!



Ian

 

[CharlesM]

lol

 

[AndrewB]

I believe technically the correct courtesy ensign is that of the parent country, thus in BVI the courtesy flag is the red ensign (and so unnecessary if you are UK registered). But the locals do prefer their own national flag to be used in places like that. Be wary though of local flags where they might have political significance.

Flying the national flags of the crew on the port side is popular, particularly on charter yachts. A small warning though, flying one country's flag over another is occasionally taken as an indication of the skipper's opinion about their ranking, and some nationals may take offence, so only do this if all flags are 'first-world'. Otherwise you might stick simply to the skipper's flag.

 

[CharlesM]

Thanks for the replies.

Does anyone have any references (books or web) for communication using signalling flags?

I found a rather simplistic book, but would like to know the full deal - ie that used by warships in the past etc.

Charles

 

[BrendanS]

http://www.marinewaypoints.com/learn/flags/flags.shtml
http://www.pem.org/archives/guides/signals.htm#itc
http://www.pem.org/archives/guides/signals.htm
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/flags.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~mcmillanj/signals/Signals.html
http://members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/other/flaint.htm


There are many more, but these incorporate the current international system, as well as some older systems

 

[iangrant]

So when are you out there - we will be there at Christmas - Neptune willing..

Ian

 

[CharlesM]

Ian (?)

We (my love, my queen) and I will be flying out on 23 March (21 days and counting...) and returning 21 May.

We will then be going out in the winter. I would like to go out for Christmass, but SWWNO feels she wants to be with her mum for Christmass. - maybe mum comes out to the Caribbean as well.

This 2 month trip is really a touchy feely (in boat terms hehe) trip to learn the ropes and to decide what the longer term holds. Personally I would like to do an indefinate circumnavigation, but my queen is not convinced. She wants to do loads of travelling, so if I can convince her this is a perfect way to travel we may just do so /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Later

 

[Metabarca]

Re: Flag etiquette - courtesy flags

May I add my own little query here?
My boat is Italian, and I wish to wear (fly?) a red ensign at the port spreader. So far so good, but where do I fly my club burgee in this case (starboard spreader? and if so, what do I do when in, say, Croatian waters?). Hmmm... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[iangrant]

Charles
Good luck - we will be there over Christmas (again) fantastic Christmas day on the beach.

Ian

 

[Superstrath]

Re: The International Code Of Signals...

...is the book you want, I think. It is large and yellow, if I remember right. This should be it here.

Alistair

 

[CharlesM]

Re: Flag etiquette - courtesy flags

Hi Metabarca

If you wish to remain strictly in the rules, then you cannot wear the red ensign in the first place as that is the national flag of the British merchantman (of which british reg. yachts are a part of) (I am assuming your boat is not British registered?

Although, if you are visiting the UK then you can wear the red ensign as the relevant courtesy flag. It can be (in the case of single masted vessels) be flown at the masthead or at the starboard crosstrees, or in the case of more thaqn one mast, at the previous position or at the fore or mizzen mast heads. In all cases care must be taken not to fly it in an inferior position to any other flag except for the yacht's own ensign and club burgee or in the case of a club's flag officer, his/her personal flag.

The club burgee or flag officers flag should be flown from a staff at the main masthead. The starboard crosstree is a reasonable alternative for racing yachts with no masthead halyard, or with too many instruments at the masthead.

I am afraid this is not my own knowledge, but extracted from 'Flag etiquette and visual signals' by the RYA - and I may have missed pertinent information.

so in summary, I guess you can fly your club burgee above the courtesy flag.

Cheers
Charles

Anyway,

 

[Koeketiene]

Re: Flag etiquette - courtesy flags

[ QUOTE ]


so in summary, I guess you can fly your club burgee above the courtesy flag.



[/ QUOTE ]

You NEVER fly anything ABOVE a courtesy flag - could (and will) piss of the natives. Courtesy flag always outermost starboard spreader. Club burgee masthead. If not possible (due to instruments etc...) port spreader.

There is no provision anywhere to fly a flag indicating the skippers nationality. It's something charterers do when they think they are being nautical.

 

[MedMan]

Re: Flag etiquette - courtesy flags

[ QUOTE ]
You NEVER fly anything ABOVE a courtesy flag - could (and will) piss of the natives. Courtesy flag always outermost starboard spreader. Club burgee masthead. If not possible (due to instruments etc...) port spreader.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm! I suspect you mean never fly anything above a coutesy flag on the same halyard in which case I would agree. However, in terms of position ranking, the masthead is superior to the starboard crosstrees and the burgee is thus correctly worn superior to a courtesy flag.

The RYA Book of Flag Etiquette makes it clear that the burgee should, if at all possible be worn at the mast head but concedes that, if the clutter of instrumentation makes that impracticable it can be moved down one notch in superiority to the outer starboard crosstrees. When cruising in home waters this creates no conflict and it is frequently seen.

Logically, if the burgee has been demoted to the starboard crosstrees, the courtesy flag, when cruising abroad, should be similarly demoted by one position i.e. to the outer port crosstrees. I actually did this for my first year of full-time cruising around the coasts of France, Spain and Portugal with no problem from the authorities at all. However, I got so fed up with answering questions from other Yachties that I dumped my burgee and replaced it with a square CA House Flag. I now fly the coutesy flag from the starboard crosstrees where folk expect to see it and my House Flag from the port crosstrees. (In case anyone is worrying, I wear a red ensign, not the CA defaced blue so there is no requirement for me to fly a burgee at all)