Flag etiquette when abroad

[sh02sh]

Can anyone help in clarifying flag etiquette for me......I've just bought a boat and intend to keep it in its country of registration. Do I fly the ensign of that country to denote the country of registration of the boat or do I fly the red ensign along with a courtesy flag of the the "host" country as I'm a British national ?

 

[Guest]

You fly the flag of the country of registration. It's not just etiquette, it's law, and you may get into trouble if you do otherwise.

 

[awol]

Well it all depends where it is - for example, in Portugal you need their equivalence of a Yachtmaster to sail a Portugese registered yacht (AFAIK) and other countries have their own requirements - French mandatory rules for equipment carried etc.
On the otherhand if you sail in Portugal with a red ensign you will have to produce your papers, including registration doc, in every marina and to the police ribs and they may not understand your choice.
I would recommend registering it in UK as well and selecting your nationality as it appears appropriate.

 

[Guest]

But it would be highly illegal to register it in two places like I think you're suggesting.

You can only register in one country, and that is the flag that you have to fly. Any other approach is risking big problems.

 

[awol]

"Highly" illegal ? Illegal possibly, though I would like to be convinced that being on the SSR proscribes registration elsewhere. My point was that it is not simply a matter of which flag to fly. There are a wheen of other considerations and the UK flagging requires less effort than that of a lot of our esteemed EC partners.

 

[Ships_Cat]

though I would like to be convinced that being on the SSR proscribes registration elsewhere.

Hows about phoning the MCA and also the Portuguese Register and asking them about being on both registers.

Please tell us their answers so's we can all /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif at you.

John

 

[Guest]

Flying a foreign flag on a British registered vessel makes you liable to (a) forfeiture of your boat (b) fine of up to £50,000, and (c) up to 2 years in prison under S3(4) of the Merchant Shipping Act.Also, it's an offence under S 4(1) of the Act.

In addition, it would be an offence under S. 10(5) of that Act:

("(5) Where a ship becomes registered at a time when it is already registered under the law of a country other than the United Kingdom, the owner of the ship shall take all reasonable steps to secure the termination of the ship's registration under the law of that country")

It will also be illegal under the law of the other country where you're registered, and possibly other countries that you visit - legal systems don't take kindly to ships switching their flags at will.

 

[exapp]

Hmmm i could imagine flying the Irish Tricolour when visiting Northern Ireland....need to make sure you're visiting the "right" seaside town...

 

[awol]

Jack Aubrey seems to have spent a great deal of his time flying the flags of other nations though he had the decency to revert to the UK ensign before firing his guns.
I cannot be bothered to research the law on this matter and am happy to accept that to be registered in both the UK and another country may be proscribed, (though the UK bare-boat chartering of a foreign flagged vessel seems to be an exception). The chances of discovery are slim and there may be advantages in being able to make a choice.
I am tempted to turn myself in as my own vessel was registered on the IOM SSR when I bought her and I simultaneously registered her on the UK SSR though the overlap amounted to less than a month - do they have broadband in the Tower of London?

 

[Ships_Cat]

Tower of London - should you be so lucky! You might like to instead reflect on how Guy Fawkes was executed /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
The chances of discovery are slim and there may be advantages in being able to make a choice.
I am tempted to turn myself in as my own vessel was registered on the IOM SSR when I bought her and I simultaneously registered her on the UK SSR though the overlap amounted to less than a month - do they have broadband in the Tower of London?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm prepared not to tell them about it for a fee /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My boat was checked by the authorities a couple of weeks ago to make sure that the country of registration matched the flag!

 

[awol]

But I'm not a catholic.... And nowadays they would have had to release him after 28 days (or 90 if Tone gets his way)

Perhaps Sh02sh could explain why he wants to remain registered in a foreign clime rather than show his true colours?

 

[Ships_Cat]

I agree, would probably get picked up pretty quickly during entry procedures. I think the UK SSR is the only register that doesn't require the port of registry to be permanently fixed to the boat (my understanding is that it doesn't but havent checked) so very difficult to hide behind two nationalities unless very quick with the paint brush (and in some places the carving tools too).

Thinking of renaming my yacht "Jeckyll and Hyde" Port of Registry "Wellington Errrrr Sydney" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[chrisc]

And the flag designates which regulations you must follow.

 

[timchapman]

Whilst on this subject someone has told me that when outside UK waters only the red ensign should be worn, (not blue or white). Can anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[Sea Devil]

Where the problem gets more 'difficult' for UK citizens is that if you are resident abroad you may register part 1 with a UK address (friend/relation/lawyer) and fly the British Ensign. If you choose to go down the SSB route then this option of being British but resident abroad is not available.

The main reason for wanting UK registration is that it carries no taxes or rules about the seaworthiness or equipment of the boat... Almost all other European countries and NZ have very strict rules about the seaworthiness and 'equipment' of the boat and many also require the skipper to have some formal qualifications.

Interesting that it is the UK that is so liberal - like Panama registration for Merchant ships....

Michael

 

[gandy]

You'd still need the paintbrush to cover up the SSR number.

 

[Sultans_Kapitein]

If you bothered to have it painted on ! So many times it is on a plate or some such, tut tut !

 

[Guest]

The blue or white are fine (provided you're entitled to wear them in the first place) abroad. The only reason to go for the red is that more people are likely to recognise it.

On the other hand, not many seem to recognise the red anyway (my boat has a red, and if I had a quid for the number of times this year I was asked what country my boat comes from by people who ought to know, harbourmasters etc...)

 

[Birdseye]

Simple - just stick an EU flag on the rear end (with or without a Union flag in the corner)
Or do what I do and fly a Welsh flag. Either option is guaranteed to wind up the Colonel Blimps and worth it for that alone. And the latter helps in the Basque country.

It may well be against some rule to register in two countries, but its stretching credibility toi think that the Portugese bureaucracy (say) and the MSA are well enough co-ordinated to know one way or the other. Mind you, I dont see the point - if you are flying one ensign, you can hardly show the authorities the reg docs from the other country. So you would have to know in advance who was inspecting you and for what purpose so you could decide what flag to fly and papers to show.

But if you are the sort of chap who worries about such issues, then there is no doubt the boat should fly the ensign of its country of registration. You dont need to fly anything related to your nationality, domicile or tax residency, but if you decide to do so then you can fly whatever flag you think appropraite from the port spreader.