Flag Etiquette take 2

[jfm]

The post below seems to be e-busted, so here's re-post. Apols for my my pig ignorance here but despite sailing many years I have no proper experience. Can someone give me a few pointers on flag etiquette please, specifically the following...

1. Normally I just fly a red ensign from port quarter, and take down in evening in harbour. No club burgee, (except Haydns!). Is that OK?
2. I have a french courtesy flag (basically a mini red-white-blue french flag). I should fly this from the post on my radar arch when in French waters, right? Does its position relative to red ensign matter?
3. I also have a yellow Q. Do people bother with this on a quick stop over in France? If I fly it, where should it be located relative to the Fr courtesy flag? Above/below/level on the opposite side/doesn't matter?
4. I understand that, say, a club burgee should be above Haydn's, but what about the relative positioning of Haydn's and the French courtesy flag? And Q flag?
5. What are the rules about flags flown on opposite sides of the boat (I have two masts, one either side of the radar). Should I go out of my way to put HLB's and any other superior flag both on the same pole so the hierarchy is clearly apparent, or can I fly one port side and other stbd?
6. Some manufs (Leopard) stick a jackstaff on the pulpit with manufacturer's burgee. Is this ok? What about its position relative to other burgees - it is lower than one flown from the radar arch but also more forward - does that matter?
7. What courtesy flag applies if visiting channel islands?

A general set of rules, possibly also an acronym, wd be much appreciated

 

[byron]

1. OK on both Ensign & Burgee
2. Starboard if possible, main thing is that it is up.
3. Q flag no longer required visiting or returning from EEC
4. Not important but if you have no other club burgee it would be best flown top of the mast.
5. Technically superior stuff goes to starboard
6. The manuf. burgee has no relevance what-so-ever and strange as it may sound is inferior to the new Burgee, although if you have a Warrant it should not be up at all as it constitutes an advertisement.
7. The appropriate 'state' flag as courtesy much as one would put up if visiting Scotland or Wales and then you DO need a Q flag as they are outside the EEC.
The 'rules' are set down in Queens Regulations.

ô¿ô

 

[hlb]

So Main thing seems to be. Burgee needs to go to starboard. If theres a thingy to hang it on. So we all need another Burgee on the port side. Or we cant see it. So now need more cheques in the post sharpish!!

Have you sent off Your Stamped. SAE and cheque. Yet.

Haydn

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ah, but you have'nt answered the most important question. Which one is superior, the French courtesy flag or our burgee?

 

[DPH]

Forgive my ignorance too but I've only got one place to stick a flag, like jfm on the port quarter.

As I'm planning to go to France do I have to fly a French courtesy flag as well? I guess if I go to the channel islands,since they’re not in the EEC then I will need the yellow Q flag there and on returning.

I’m not keen on putting extra masts on the boat, can I get away with flying the most appropriate at the time?

Lastly, is there a web site that has any guidance on this?

 

[boatone]

One ventures to suggest that the fact that you have to ask suggests that your attitude and loyalty to this Forum needs to be closely examined !





TonyR
boatone@boatsontheweb.com
www.boatsonthethames.co.uk

 

[coliholic]

Quoi?

 

[boatone]

parce'que

TonyR
boatone@boatsontheweb.com
www.boatsonthethames.co.uk

 

[byron]

The answer to flying a French Courtesy flag is emphatically YES! indeed some Froggies can quite rightly take umbrage if you don't. Don't worry too much where you fly it as long as you do. Sticking it on your VHF aerial will do. On your 'Q' flag for you C.I. visit stick that up the VHF too.

ô¿ô

 

[Viceroy]

From across the pond, there's some etiquette information on the following two sites:
<http://smsa.com/flag.htm> and
<http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/etiquette.html>
Cheers, Richard.

 

[hlb]

Wont that make the arial a bit lolopy Byron.

Anyway I only got one flag to fly. Untill the new one comes. So I do it a bit like the queen does and if it's OK for her it will do for me. So I stick the flag up when I'm in residence. and pull it down when I go home. That way every one Knows whether I'm in or out. And the flag dont get all knackered if left up all the time.

Have you sent off Your Stamped. SAE and cheque. Yet.

Haydn

 

[byron]

The proper place for the senior Burgee is top of mast and Courtesy Flag starboard arm. Other Burgees (if worn) to port although in times long ago it was considered bad form to wear more than one Club burgee as this was considered boasting, this has largely gone by the board now being replaced by "wearing at the hoist the Burgee relating to the club whos waters you are in, excepting if one has a Burgee relating to an Admiralty warrant in which case this should be at the senior fly" Much of this is irrelevant to your average boater mainly because the difficulty in finding correct positioning due to lack of mast space. Equally one should take down Burgees at night but to do so on an average motor boat can be quite a task and so is ignored due to practicality.

ô¿ô

 

[byron]

Sure Haydn, its not the best thing in the world for a VHF but needs must when the devil drives and it isn't as if a Burgee or a small courtest ensign is putting great strains on it.

ô¿ô

 

[paulineb]

I've got a little flagpole on the bow guardrail. What do you suggest I fly from there ?

Pxx

 

[byron]

Your House Flag, it is quite acceptable to fly the new fun burgee from there too.

ô¿ô

 

[tcm]

Re: Flag Etiquette for dolts

1. Fly a red ensign if UK registered, french flag if french registered. There should only be one from rear quarter, not two, otherwise even marina types get pissy.

2. Bollox to Q flags.

3. Courtesy flags should include where you are visting. France if in france, for example, and nothing senior to it, but see 10 and 11 below.

4. For for minor 2nd and 3rd rate regions and principalities, you don't need to fly courtesy flags. BUT it goes down v well if you do, especially if the place is really a bit crap and awkward lot eg wales, corsica, cornwall.

5. With "wrong" courtesy flags flying, expect to be hailed by quayside wandering welsh person or yank if flying yank flag.

6. In harbour, leaving the flag up at night is only queried out loud by the awkward lot. Respond in agreement with something like "You're right - I'm waiting for the chief petty officer to do it - but the last I saw of him he had gone off with the Bursar towards the drycleaners with a hamper full of footmens' wigs! have you seen them?"

7. Leaving the flag down all the time keeps it nice, and esp when planing it flap flap flaps and goes raggity. Consider wrapping it round the pole a lot.

8 Really massive flags look the biz.

9 Americans always fly american courtesy flags. Beware.

10. To avoid the seniority issue, fly all the courtesy flags from different places on the radar arch. Otherwise u have to prat about swapping them about.

11 Consider carefully and decide if you really need to (ever) visit a country, cos there's the expense of that damn flag to start with. For example, I accidentally went and bort an italian flag, and the place is a total dump!

 

[byron]

Re: Flag Etiquette for dolts

Point 6. Bursar or Purser ?

ô¿ô

 

[paulineb]

Re: Flag Etiquette for dolts

should it be purser = ship and bursar = school fees ?

Pxx

 

[tcm]

Re: petty officer

I made it up! I think it's purser, as pauline suggests. Bursar does sound all school feesy. Perhaps say petty officer instead. But why are they "Petty"? It sounds as though there "officers" who do all the bossing about, and then there some "petty" officers who just nitpick, perhaps about the flags/burgees or the knots being not exactly as in the book?